The Bloodguard from the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant fight unarmed, because they're just that badass. Some of that badassness comes from being empowered by a supernatural oath, but in the second series there are a group of Haruchai (Bloodguard race without the oath) that are almost as good.Gort said:
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Monk = __________ Striker
- Thread starter VBMEW-01
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Shabe
First Post
short time lurker, finally posts
The first time i ever picked up a D&D rulebook and saw the monk class, all i thought about was Friar Tuck, especially as the version i was reading had all these weight limits the monk could grapple, i was imagining it as Tuck bear hugging people into the ground.
If you're going along the kung-fu route then I'd have thought that monks would just come under martial power source, but the quote from the races & classes book does seem to suggest psionic which isn't really a problem cause it goes with the whole meditating and improving your control over the body with the mind.
Re hatred of psionics...
Magic just exists in the world and takes incantations and research to beable to manipulate the force, that is its only special science as i see it.
Theres quite a bit of fantasy lit that seems to describe magic in terms of d&d psionics, I can't remember the books but there are definitely places where they say the wizard heard a roar in his mind as he reached out into the water and started visulising the tiny water molecules moving faster and faster to boil the water.
I don't see the problem with using science to describe either magic spells or psionics, its just that in d&d magic is tied into incantations and the spells just working, the wizards aren't bothered about why a spell heats the water they are just bothered about what incantations and gestures were used to create the effect. Psionics on the otherhand are about using your mind to alter something to create an effect so knowing how things work will be a big help.
Sorry for that off topicness.
The first time i ever picked up a D&D rulebook and saw the monk class, all i thought about was Friar Tuck, especially as the version i was reading had all these weight limits the monk could grapple, i was imagining it as Tuck bear hugging people into the ground.
If you're going along the kung-fu route then I'd have thought that monks would just come under martial power source, but the quote from the races & classes book does seem to suggest psionic which isn't really a problem cause it goes with the whole meditating and improving your control over the body with the mind.
Re hatred of psionics...
Magic just exists in the world and takes incantations and research to beable to manipulate the force, that is its only special science as i see it.
Theres quite a bit of fantasy lit that seems to describe magic in terms of d&d psionics, I can't remember the books but there are definitely places where they say the wizard heard a roar in his mind as he reached out into the water and started visulising the tiny water molecules moving faster and faster to boil the water.
I don't see the problem with using science to describe either magic spells or psionics, its just that in d&d magic is tied into incantations and the spells just working, the wizards aren't bothered about why a spell heats the water they are just bothered about what incantations and gestures were used to create the effect. Psionics on the otherhand are about using your mind to alter something to create an effect so knowing how things work will be a big help.
Sorry for that off topicness.
Well, one organisation in one set of novels doesn't really count as a broad tradition, to be fair.Staffan said:
In any case, Asian fantasy has just as long a tradition (possibly longer) of armed fighters as unarmed ones. It's just that the Shaolin monks got lots of exposure in the Hong Kong flicks of the 70s, and so the D&D monk is an unarmed combatant.
If not a "Ki" power source, then Monks are obviously Martial characters.
But I get the feeling "Ki" will be the new power source for a number of classes, probably with the "Kara-Tur" flavor to them.
Ki Defender = Monk. I'd put them in the Defender role, using their supernatural agility and mystic abilities to absorb damage to "stick" to a target monster. Whereas the fighter and paladin might have greater damage-dealing capacity, the monk could make up for it in the ease of movement through the battlefield.
Ki Striker = Ninja. Not too thematically different from the rogue, but with a more mystic "ki-based" source of their powers.
Ki Leader = Samurai. Yes, I know the argument about "Samurai are just fighters with different flavor" - but the same argument can be made that Rangers are just Rogues with different flavor, or that any PC class is just a commoner with some training. Fact is, the classes are what the game defines them as.
It's the Controller class that always confuses me. For the life of me I still can't figure out what a Martial Controller would be.
But I get the feeling "Ki" will be the new power source for a number of classes, probably with the "Kara-Tur" flavor to them.
Ki Defender = Monk. I'd put them in the Defender role, using their supernatural agility and mystic abilities to absorb damage to "stick" to a target monster. Whereas the fighter and paladin might have greater damage-dealing capacity, the monk could make up for it in the ease of movement through the battlefield.
Ki Striker = Ninja. Not too thematically different from the rogue, but with a more mystic "ki-based" source of their powers.
Ki Leader = Samurai. Yes, I know the argument about "Samurai are just fighters with different flavor" - but the same argument can be made that Rangers are just Rogues with different flavor, or that any PC class is just a commoner with some training. Fact is, the classes are what the game defines them as.
It's the Controller class that always confuses me. For the life of me I still can't figure out what a Martial Controller would be.
Sadrik
First Post
What if they changed the power source name to Mind or Mental or something similar. Then it retains the psionic mechanics without the psionic fluff. Also, Psionics have been in D&D since first edition and many many monsters utilize them. How do you deal with those monsters in your game (Githyanki, Illithid etc)?Aria Silverhands said:
Nifft
Penguin Herder
IMHO Monk should be a hybrid class: Martial Striker/Defender or Martial Striker/Controller.
Striker: Stun, speed boosts.
Controller: Disarm, Trip, Grapple, Combat Reflexes, etc.
Defender: Saves (er, Defenses), Evasion, AC bonuses, defensive powers.
Choose two.
Cheers, -- N
Striker: Stun, speed boosts.
Controller: Disarm, Trip, Grapple, Combat Reflexes, etc.
Defender: Saves (er, Defenses), Evasion, AC bonuses, defensive powers.
Choose two.
I hope you never see a well-played Cleric, Druid or Wizard.Aria Silverhands said:
Cheers, -- N
Hybrid
Nifft and I are on the same page.
I have a player in my regular group who LOVES monks, but has had limited success implementing them in our games up to 3.5. I speculated after the announcement of the druid as a hybrid class that the monk could also qualify as a hybrid. I really like the idea of a melee controller, and I think that could work well with defender or striker mixed in.
I'll leave my general paranoia / fear of the whole hybrid role to another topic. In my limited experience in other genres, the hybrid has been always been poorly implemented shifting from too diluted to too powerful over time.
Nifft said:
Nifft and I are on the same page.
I have a player in my regular group who LOVES monks, but has had limited success implementing them in our games up to 3.5. I speculated after the announcement of the druid as a hybrid class that the monk could also qualify as a hybrid. I really like the idea of a melee controller, and I think that could work well with defender or striker mixed in.
I'll leave my general paranoia / fear of the whole hybrid role to another topic. In my limited experience in other genres, the hybrid has been always been poorly implemented shifting from too diluted to too powerful over time.
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