Monk = __________ Striker

[TwoSix]

Monk = Psionic Striker
Soulknife/Psychic Warrior combo = Psionic Defender
Telepath = Psionic Leader
Telekinetic = Psionic Controller

 

[VBMEW-01]

I believe that we have decided to treat the power source as divine for monks in our campaigns (unless they are divine or martial) and are going to rework their fluff to make them fit in our world (that was a given there)

It shouldn't be hard to ignore Ki, since everything basically works in the same way now. Its too close to divine to make much difference anyway. I just hope they are strikers, cause that's what our friend really wants to play them as.

We like happy players at our table, probly like most of you.

EDIT-I should've added a poll to this, a consensus would've been interesting.

 

[RandomCitizenX]

IMC, Monks have always been affiliated with a religion, and serve as the "Rogues" in a temple comprised of non-alignment specific Paladins and Clerics.

Hence, Divine Striker.

This!
Definitely would go with Divine Striker as well. I would also love to see an unarmed Martial class or Fighter variant.

Psionics being tied to Ki has always struck me as off, as does Ki being a subset of Martial. Monks being tied to religion is right there in the name after all.

 

[Starbuck_II]

I hate psionics due to a number of idotic power gaming munchtards ruining campaigns in which the DM let them play. I've yet to be in a campaign where the psionic character wasn't broken, wasn't overpowered, and didn't steal the limelight every single combat.

Only way that psionics can be over powered:
a. DM was using houserules to nerf every other class.
b. Player was cheating (forgot you can never spend more power points than your manifester level on any power, or something other rule).
c. You characters were skill focus basket weavers. He was only one built for actual combat.

 

[Fifth Element]

Perhaps in Greyhawk and Realms, but not in Eberron.

I thought we were discussing generic D&D, rather than Eberron.

 

[Leatherhead]

Martial artist = martial power source.

So what if monks have Ki attacks and can defy natural laws, warlords can heal you by shouting at you, and they are martial as well.

 

[Stogoe]

Sorry, but monks should be ki. I know there are people out there who hate and loathe eastern flavor, but they aren't the sort who choose to play monks in the first place.

I know the OP said "if," but the "if" is too big to be swallowed.

I don't know if anyone has said anything truer about the Monk, or could possibly say anything truer.

 

[Fifth Element]

So what if monks have Ki attacks and can defy natural laws, warlords can heal you by shouting at you, and they are martial as well.

This comparison only works if you don't realize what hit points actually represent. You don't need magic to recover hp in 4E, because hit points are not merely physical damage.

 

[Terramotus]

We still need a martial unarmed combatant. To fill that role in a medieval standard fantasy setting that doesn't include oriental stuff.

No, we don't. A western medieval standard fantasy setting that doesn't include oriental stuff doesn't have a martial unarmed combatant.

The reason for this is that 1) using your hands is dumb when your foes have swords and 2) there are no examples of unarmed combat schools that survive in the west. Sure, there are swordsmanship manuals that have a few elbow and knee techniques that would look familiar to certain Eastern martial artists, but nothing without weapons. Fists were what was used when not even a club or dagger was at hand, and I think that's adequately explained by the standard d3 of damage, assuming it exists in 4E, and what I'm guessing is a lack of any proficiency bonus.

The closest that you get in the west is Greek pankration, but even that's not going to be terribly useful against a hoplite in full panoply, or a griffon for that matter. IMO, psionics or ki is the only thing that makes an unarmed fighting class even remotely plausible when they're facing down enemies in armor, much less dragons whose scales can scarcely be cut by normal weapons.

Bruisers are the "evil monk" in EQ2. They have what D&D gamers would call supernatural and/or extraordinary abilities. Many of which would fit right in with 4th edition class design. The bruiser's power source could be martial, from simply being that bad ass or primal, drawing on some power that makes them a force of nature.

Uh, if you're so in love with EQ2's classes, why don't you do a conversion for the house rules section? That response totally came out of left field and didn't answer the quoted post at all, so I'm not sure how to respond to that other than, "Ok..." Regardless, EQ2's classes don't constitute a western tradition of unarmed martial arts.

I hate psionics due to a number of idotic power gaming munchtards ruining campaigns in which the DM let them play. I've yet to be in a campaign where the psionic character wasn't broken, wasn't overpowered, and didn't steal the limelight every single combat.

Then you need better people to play with, if they're ruining the game and/or a better DM. The psionics books are better balanced than the majority of the 3.5 splats. Or maybe your DM was looking to run a high powered game and the psionics players understood that while the other ones didn't. Regardless, your experience is next to meaningless here since we don't know the details of your own group to draw our own conclusions.

 

[Exen Trik]

Controller: Disarm, Trip, Grapple, Combat Reflexes, etc.

For the life of me, I can't figure out how this constitutes a controller. Affecting the enemy by knocking them prone, grappling them, moving them, or whatever kind of condition or effect may seem like "control" of a kind, but *every* class has that to some degree or another. Controllers are the ones who do it often, in large groups and at range, usually along with a load of damage to multiple targets. They also shape the battlefield directly. And none of that has anything to do with monks.

Even at the extreme interpretation, where the monk leaps into battle and spin kicks a whole group of enemies and knocks them prone, wouldn't make the monk more a controller than any other martial class.