Monk variant, balanced off warlock

[Tectorman]

Just a few questions, 'cause I love the class and I want to be sure to get it right.

1.) Why just Wis bonus to AC instead of Wis bonus + (up to) 4 like the normal Monk?

2.) I suppose the Mantra Monk is capable of bypassing the normal restriction of still having at least one PP in order to attain a psionic focus (and thus expend it for the mantras), is that right?

3.) Does the Ki Projection strike range increment operate as a thrown increment (max. range is 5x) or as a projectile (max. range is 10x)? I know "Projection" would imply the projectile version, but seeing as how Ki Blast from the PHB II is a "thrown" attack, I want to be sure.

4.) For Extend Style (and thus, Superior Style in the class's special abilities) to function, are the normal rules for "virtual" feats supposed to be suspended? I.e., if I'm a Ranger with Combat Style (TWF), then at 2nd level, I get TWF. It only applies when I'm not in medium or heavy armor, but otherwise, I get to benefit from it like normal (including being able to use a character level feat to get Two-Weapon Defense without having to go back and take TWF for real just to qualify for the feat). Because if that's not how it works, then I need it explained to me.

Other than that, it is heads and tails superior to the 3.5 Monk. Even if all the class abilities summed up into being the same, just the fact of having so much versatility makes the class attractive. Very, very well done.

 

[starwed]

Just a few questions, 'cause I love the class and I want to be sure to get it right.

I'm glad you like it, but beware of the fact that it's never (that I know of) been fully playtested. I'd really like hearing how it works out in practice.

1.) Why just Wis bonus to AC instead of Wis bonus + (up to) 4 like the normal Monk?

It's in the general spirit of making monk class features optional. You can effectively recover this ability with either of two techniques: Skin of Iron (Awakened) gives a natural armor bonus of 1, plus 1/5 levels. Perfect Defense (Perfect) gives the same +4 AC normal monk would have by about that level.

One point: unlike most of the other class features, you can use mantras while armored.

2.) I suppose the Mantra Monk is capable of bypassing the normal restriction of still having at least one PP in order to attain a psionic focus (and thus expend it for the mantras), is that right?

Yeah, that was intended. I always play that any psionic creature can become focused, and having psi-like abilities automatically grants the psionic sub-type. I guess technically you either need pp or a specific exemption, so that should be put in the description somewhere.

3.) Does the Ki Projection strike range increment operate as a thrown increment (max. range is 5x) or as a projectile (max. range is 10x)? I know "Projection" would imply the projectile version, but seeing as how Ki Blast from the PHB II is a "thrown" attack, I want to be sure.

Man, I didn't even think about that. The penalties to hit get pretty large, so it's not that big a balance issue. I guess it depends on whether you like the idea of someone projecting their Ki 50' away or not...

4.) For Extend Style (and thus, Superior Style in the class's special abilities) to function, are the normal rules for "virtual" feats supposed to be suspended? I.e., if I'm a Ranger with Combat Style (TWF), then at 2nd level, I get TWF. It only applies when I'm not in medium or heavy armor, but otherwise, I get to benefit from it like normal (including being able to use a character level feat to get Two-Weapon Defense without having to go back and take TWF for real just to qualify for the feat). Because if that's not how it works, then I need it explained to me.

The intent was that you can use the standard feat progressions to make your fighting style better, but you don't get any of those feats when you're not using a particular style.

I was thinking that the Extend Style feat was necessary because, since you don't have access to the style feats all the time, they would not otherwise meet the prereqs for other feats. As you point out with the example of the ranger, I suppose that is not necessarily the case.

 

[Zelc]

Just give the new Monk the Wild Talent feat, like Soulknives. That'll let them take psionic feats too.

 

[starwed]

Just give the new Monk the Wild Talent feat, like Soulknives. That'll let them take psionic feats too.

That's actually a horrible hack. If the monk/soulknife loses the 2pp granted by the feat, they can no longer obtain psionic focus! And there are several ways to cause pp damage.

It should just be explicitly stated that the class can gain psionic focus, if it's needed for class features.

 

[Zelc]

That's actually a horrible hack. If the monk/soulknife loses the 2pp granted by the feat, they can no longer obtain psionic focus! And there are several ways to cause pp damage.

It should just be explicitly stated that the class can gain psionic focus, if it's needed for class features.

Well, how else is the DM going to mess with them? Eh, if you really want to give them psionic focus without PP, I guess that's not a big deal. I like the consistency though, and the tough DMs will enjoy the added opportunities.

 

[Tectorman]

That's actually a horrible hack. If the monk/soulknife loses the 2pp granted by the feat, they can no longer obtain psionic focus! And there are several ways to cause pp damage.

It should just be explicitly stated that the class can gain psionic focus, if it's needed for class features.

In my full BAB psionics class, the Psi-Fighter, I did the exact same thing (they are always treated as having one power point solely for the purpose of being able to attain a psionic focus. I also assumed that that would be enough to qualify them as being psionic characters, but it was pointed out that I was wrong. Ergo, I added in an addendum saying that they were considered psionic characters and thus able to take psionic feats.

So, I agree. Explicitly state it, and explicitly state that they're considered psionic creatures (so that they can take psionic feats.

Also, concerning the Extend Style feat, I really don't know how you'd fix it, but may I make a suggestion for the class? If the class doesn't need the feat (i.e., if you're playing using virtual feat prerequisites a la that Ranger example I provided earlier), then maybe replace it with another feat. Or rather, since Improved Toughness is worth a feat and gives you 1 point per HD and since the average difference between a d6 HD and a d8 HD is 1 point per HD, take out Extend Style and just make the HD a d8.

Alternatively, maybe make a feat where for the purpose of gaining the skill bonuses granted by your styles, you're always considered to be using the style. Say you've got 3 styles. You can only use one of them at a time, meaning you get an up to +3 bonus to one skill and up to 3 feats available to use. With the new Extend Style feat, you could have an up to +3 bonus to the three skills related to the styles you took. The feats of the styles would still remain the same. Just an idea.

 

[Zelc]

Don't forget they won't qualify for PrCs that require a power point reserve unless you explicitly state it.

Honestly, I think that's more trouble than it's worth. There aren't that many effects that remove power points (I can think of 3, one of which (Psionic Hole) won't apply and the other two are very rare?). The nice DMs who don't want to disable characters will just avoid using them. The hard DMs would appreciate the opportunity to mess with their players. If you think about it, there are also tons of monsters that screw over Fighters (like the Rust Monster and similar types, along with the tough to melee stuff like Hydras) and stuff that can screw over Wizards (destroy Spellbook, gg). They haven't caused dire problems for Fighters and Wizards. Using Wild Talent is much more consistent and you don't have to worry about the interaction of virtual power points with other effects.

Of course, this is your homebrew so you can tailor it to your needs. If you want ti to be more general though, I'd advise the Wild Talent.

 

[Tectorman]

I don't know. I think it's more appropriate that they don't have pp and thus have PrCs denied them. Remember that the Warlock has the same problem (by not having such-and-such level spells to meet prerequisites with). If PrCs are a problem, then I'd either a.) put in Wild Talent and just accept that sometimes you will not have pp to fuel your psionic focus, b.) put in an addendum describing the special way that this class qualifies for PrCs (like the Warlock), or c.) just make up your own PrCs (if necessary).

Also, I just noticed: this class doesn't have any multiclassing penalties (woo-hoo!).

 

[StormingMarcus]

Starwed, I've just noted your creation and i think it's awesome.
Can i translate it in italian, and, can i make any change on it, provided (obviously) that i credit you as the original author?
The translation might be hosted @ www.5clone.it an italian RPG (mostly D&D) community.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Late- very late- to the party, but...

If you check my sig, you'll see a link to a Monk Database, full of a host of published material regarding Monks.

If anyone is going to use this variant, they may wish to take a look there for PrCls that would work well with it- like the Atavist, a Monk/Soulknife PrCl* (RoE p133). There are also several psi-monk PrCls on the list.