Monks and Mage-Killing

[Ridley's Cohort]

double post

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I agree with Storminator.

Mobility and threat of a stun make the monk too dangerous to ignore. Even a simple grapple will force the opposing wizard on the defensive.

The monk alone can't stop the Evil Wizard. But the monk can plausibly force his main opponent to temporarily abandon his minions to be slaughtered like sheep at the hands of the other PCs.

 

[Storminator]

You mean "mage delayers".

In team sports, delayed is dead.

Yes, I have also mentioned this somewhere, that the monk will absolutely be able to delay the mage and distract him from dealing with the party. The monk is enough of a threat to not be ignored at least.

Now that's something I do not believe. Only if the mage mindlessly fireballs away.

Bye
Thanee

Look at the spells you have suggested for dealing with the monk. Forcecages, Dimensional Lock, Otto's Irresistable Dance and having the wizard teleport away. If that's your 3 rounds, how hurt is my monk? Not at all.

You can use some damage spells (Horrid Wilting, Crushing Hand, etc) but those aren't going to get the monk off you, so you probably wouldn't use them.

So in the end, the monk is unharmed, and his party wins. I've done it; it works.

PS

 

[Shadowdweller]

My player group seems to have been finding recently that (grappling) monks are really the answer to another type of annoying caster: the cleric. Although the cleric has Freedom of Movement as a class spell, the duration is very short, meaning that they are generally vulnerable to a speedy and/or stealthy monk. Moreover, virtually all cleric spells have Divine Focus and Somatic components which seriously prohibit casting while grappled.

Provided that spellcasting (e.g. buffing) is thus inhibited, monks generally seem to have an edge over clerics as far as melee damage output goes.

 

[Thanee]

Look at the spells you have suggested for dealing with the monk. Forcecages, Dimensional Lock, Otto's Irresistable Dance and having the wizard teleport away. If that's your 3 rounds, how hurt is my monk? Not at all.

Yeah, that's just because I didn't mention (because it's irrelevant to the point) in which of several ways the mage will then kill the monk, who is completely at his mercy.

So in the end, the monk is unharmed, and his party wins. I've done it; it works.

I actually agree with that (it's what I meant with being able to delay the mage - it's just not a viable solution for every situation).

Bye
Thanee

 

[sithramir]

In team sports, delayed is dead.


Look at the spells you have suggested for dealing with the monk. Forcecages, Dimensional Lock, Otto's Irresistable Dance and having the wizard teleport away. If that's your 3 rounds, how hurt is my monk? Not at all.

You can use some damage spells (Horrid Wilting, Crushing Hand, etc) but those aren't going to get the monk off you, so you probably wouldn't use them.

So in the end, the monk is unharmed, and his party wins. I've done it; it works.

PS

Unfortunately this is incorrect. The monk is not unharmed. If not saved somehow from a teammate he dies from suffucation. If you use the 10x10 cage its completely dealed by force walls and no air would make it through. I belive for that 10x10x10 space he would have about 16 hours to breath. (This is completely d&d as he'd die in an hour from CO2 but in the game you just calculate the amount of oxygen in the volume). So he has time to be saved by his comrades (which basically means finding a disintegrate spell, bringing a potted plant and a druid, or using shadow jump magic. This does, however, also allow the mage to either deal with his friends or heal up and be prepared to fight the group again with that hideous combo rememorized.

 

[Pax]

A Wall of Force is not neccessarily airtight. Windproof yes, but airtight ... not neccessarily.

The ELH lists a DC for Escape Artist, which allows you to pass THROUGH a wall of force, without taking the wall down first.

And for a non vow-of-poverty Monk, all he needs is a Necklace of Adaptation, or the Ioun stone that obviates the need to breathe.

For an ascetic monk ... that ability comes as part of the package deal.

 

[Scion]

I doubt that the forcecage would suffocate anyone I do believe it was even explained in the faq, not that the faq counts for a whole lot most of the time though I suppose.

As for monk needing to fly, he should be able to jump to just about anywhere useful that the mage happens to be. With his speed, and a few handy items, jump checks of insane proportions arent terribly difficult to imagine.

If for some reason the mage is up too high for the monk to jump to, then the mage is also up too high to spot the monk.

Easy and incredibly difficult to dispel. Now the monk just needs an item to cast silence on himself, that should cause some headaches!

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

My player group seems to have been finding recently that (grappling) monks are really the answer to another type of annoying caster: the cleric. Although the cleric has Freedom of Movement as a class spell, the duration is very short, meaning that they are generally vulnerable to a speedy and/or stealthy monk. Moreover, virtually all cleric spells have Divine Focus and Somatic components which seriously prohibit casting while grappled.

Provided that spellcasting (e.g. buffing) is thus inhibited, monks generally seem to have an edge over clerics as far as melee damage output goes.

I noticed that, too. A wizard might be dispatched quickly with a lucky stun followed up a full attack (or two). Clerics often have high enough AC, HPs, and Fort save to stand their ground and keep casting.

The cleric's offense virtually disappears in a grapple. The monk's offense is only slighted impaired. If the combat lasts long enough, the monk will easily win.

 

[Artoomis]

I noticed that, too. A wizard might be dispatched quickly with a lucky stun followed up a full attack (or two). Clerics often have high enough AC, HPs, and Fort save to stand their ground and keep casting.

The cleric's offense virtually disappears in a grapple. The monk's offense is only slighted impaired. If the combat lasts long enough, the monk will easily win.

All true, but monks typically are not good grapplers as grappling is strength-based. They are great, however, at disarming and sundering (especially after their fists become adamantine). A cleric's holy symbol is a rather easy target for a monk to destroy, or possibly even snatch away if not considered "well-secured." I should think worn around your neck on a chain would not be "well-secured."