Monks and Magic Fang

[Caliban]

Re: Monk weapons

Taking into account that the Monk can use monk weapons with thier unarmed attack bonuses would lend me to think that they could recieve the spell and make use of it with having it cast on every appendage.

say he had a tonfa that was +1 and Shocking, all his attacks including flurry of blows would take the tonfa enhancements into account for bonuses to attack and damage. right?

Does that make sense/help?

I don't believe so.

I think that the Flurry of Blows ability is simply a better version of TWF/Ambidexterity, where you get full str damage on your off-hand/extra attack.

I believe that the extra attack from flurry of blows comes from a different limb than your normal attacks, regardless of wether you have a weapon or not.

 

[Crothian]

Re: Re: Monk weapons

I don't believe so.

I think that the Flurry of Blows ability is simply a better version of TWF/Ambidexterity, where you get full str damage on your off-hand/extra attack.

I believe that the extra attack from flurry of blows comes from a different limb than your normal attacks, regardless of wether you have a weapon or not.

This is what I think as well.

 

[Dinkeldog]

That's all right as an interpretation, but it's not spelled out. In fact, as described the first attack in an iterative cycle can be one limb and the next attack can be another. There's no limitation in the PHB.

Having said that, metagame the decision. I would have it affect all limbs.

 

[Destil]

Monk = Slam.

My own take: any creature with a natural 'slam' attack would get the benifits to all slam attacks. Normaly natural weapons don't get iteritive attacks, with slams being the exception (it's a unnatural, natraul weapon, I guess). Since the monk basicly uses slams (compair the MM slam description to the PH monk attack description) he'd get the bonus. As far as flurry of blows, I'd simply rule that any creature who uses slams has their entire body enhanced when magic fang is cast to enhance their slams. Thus you get the benifit on the extra attack. As far as the FR NPC... well, really in my opinion most suplements have much looser rules than the three core books, so I'd quietly disreguard it. It strikes me as far to weird that when the monk is supposted to be alternating various kicks, elbows, knees, headbuts, and the like, even without flurry of blows, that magic fang could do any less than affect his entire body and work at all.

Also makes MF it a great deal for druids in Elemental Form, and vampires.

 

[Caliban]

That's all right as an interpretation, but it's not spelled out. In fact, as described the first attack in an iterative cycle can be one limb and the next attack can be another. There's no limitation in the PHB.

That's not being argued. The monks iterative attacks can be from a single limb or from different limbs.

What I'm saying is that the extra attack from Flurry of Blows is not part of the iterative cycle, and I believe that it is intended to come from a seperate limb than the one(s) used for the iterative attacks.

Having said that, metagame the decision. I would have it affect all limbs.

That would be pretty much the opposite of what the spell says.

 

[demiurgeastaroth]

Well, what is the peanlty according to the rules, for a monk fighting with only one hand?

Surprisingly enough, there is a penalty for a monk if he fights with less than all of his limbs. It's listed in the DnDFAQ. I don't have it to hand (wrong computer), but it's something like this:
There's a question which asks what happens to the monk's attacks if he wants to fight while holding something in his offhand and NOt using that hand to fight.
Apparently the Monk has a number of options (remember, this is just from memory):
1) he loses his FIRST (and best) attack - so a Monk with +12/+9/+6 attacks would make two attacks at +9/+6; if he performed a flurry he loses only one attack, so makes three attacks at +10/+7/+4.
2) He drops to a normal attack progression; each attack after the first suffers a -5 penalty rather than a +3 penalty, and no Flurry is possible. So a Monk with BAB +9 would normally get 3 attacks, but with this choice he only gets two (at +9/+4 BAB).

So, by extension, a Monk with BAB on only one of his limbs should use option 1 above: he gets all of his attacks ('cos the second one gets a bit messy), but the very first attack doesn't receive the bonus.

So, a Monk with a BAB of +11, and a STR bonus of +3 who gets Magic Fang +2 would have:
First attack: +14
Subsuquent Attacks: +13/+10/+7.

If he chose to flurry, his attacks would be +12/+14/+11/+7/+5.
Weird
Of course, he could use have Magic fang cast twice and not have a problem.

Also there is some support for it being harder for Monks to benefit form enhancmeent bonuses to attacks - the Amulet of Mighty Fist which gives an attack and damage bonus to their unamed attack costs as much as three magic weapons (from that, it's easy to assume the above method is generous!).

 

[Benben]

Surprisingly enough, there is a penalty for a monk if he fights with less than all of his limbs. It's listed in the DnDFAQ. I don't have it to hand (wrong computer), but it's something like this:

This penalty applies only when the monk is holding or weilding an item that is not a monk weapon. In the FAQ in the section just above the one you reference is this:

Can a monk mix weapon attacks with monk unarmed attacks as long as the weapons she uses are martial arts weapons? For example, a monk is allowed 2 unarmed attacks (let's say +4/+1) and is armed with a single tonfa or nunchaku. Could the monk make her first attack an unarmed attack that deals unarmed damage and then use only weapon attacks or only unarmed attacks during her turn?

A monk can freely mix attacks with special monk weapons into an unarmed attack routine. The monk's attacks can all be with the weapon, they can all be unarmed, or the monk can mix them up.

Using this, a monk could have Magic Weapon cast on her siangham and get the bonus of the spell for all of her attacks during a flurry of blows. Similarly a Greater Magic Fang cast on her forehead would allow her to headbang her foes into oblivion using the bonus from the single spell.

So not full body extension of the spell is necessary nor are any new penalties needed for the monk.

 

[Kesh]

What I'm saying is that the extra attack from Flurry of Blows is not part of the iterative cycle, and I believe that it is intended to come from a seperate limb than the one(s) used for the iterative attacks.

So he grows an extra limb for Flurry of Blows?

Sorry, had to make the joke. Anyway, FoB seems to be simply to mean the monk is giving up accuracy for speed, hitting the opponent more times rather than precisely. Same weapons (entire body), just faster and less accurate.

 

[Caliban]

So he grows an extra limb for Flurry of Blows?

Sorry, had to make the joke. Anyway, FoB seems to be simply to mean the monk is giving up accuracy for speed, hitting the opponent more times rather than precisely. Same weapons (entire body), just faster and less accurate.

*shrug* That's not what I get when I read it, as I explained already.

It is very poorly worded, but if you read the section on using monk weapons to make flurry of blows, it does state that the extra attack has to be with a different weapon.

 

[mikebr99]

*shrug* That's not what I get when I read it, as I explained already.

It is very poorly worded, but if you read the section on using monk weapons to make flurry of blows, it does state that the extra attack has to be with a different weapon.

here is the wording:

Flurry of Blows: The monk may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack, but this attack and each other
attack made that round suffer a –2 penalty apiece. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it affects attacks of opportunity the monk
might make before her next action. The monk must use the full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows. A monk may also
use the flurry of blows if armed with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, or siangham). If armed with one such weapon,
the monk makes the extra attack either with that weapon or unarmed. If armed with two such weapons, she uses one for the
regular attack (or attacks) and the other for the extra attack. In any case, her damage bonus on the attack with her off hand is
not reduced.

Flurry of Blows seems to be the same mechanic as the Bladesinger's:

Song of Fury: When wielding a longsword in one hand (and nothing in the other) and using the full attack action, the bladesinger can make one extra attack in a round at his highest base attack, but this attack and each other attack made that round suffer a -2 penalty. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it affects attacks of opportunity the bladesinger might make before his next action.

Which most definitely is only using one weapon.