Monks and weapons and that other feat

[Globetrotter]

Can someone explain this to me:

Why would a monk ever use a weapon? He does far more damage with his fists, so the fast he has usable weapons is really silly (flavor aside).

I would find it more interesting if the weapons added something to his damage. It is hard to replace a hard hitting fist, just to get a +2 to trip.

Also, the unarmed attack feat... again, unless you are a monk, who takes this? Your damage doesn't increase, so you are limited to 1d3 or just slightly higher with mods. I ask about this because there are PrC of brawler for a fighter (or maybe they are fighter build options) and they are really cool, except they do crap damage and are pointless... lol.

So give me the straightdope...

 

[ValhallaGH]

I've taken Improved Unarmed Strike before. It's a crap feat if it never comes up. However, when a character is unarmed (imprisoned), needs to trip or grapple (no AoO), or other obscure situation then it is invaluable.
Yes, the damage sucks. Yes, the rules are overly complex. That's because the designers of the game wanted unarmed to be a crap weapon (excluding monks) that no one used.
But it is a cool weapon, and it does come up sometimes, and then it is extremely nice to have.

Good luck.

 

[Globetrotter]

It would be sweet if you there were feats you could take to increase the damage die.

Each feat gave you another progression as the monks. Of course you would have to slow the progression with level prerequisites like they did with weapon mastery and focus feats.

It would be a lot of feats, but at least there would be options. Then you could have a heavily armored brawler doing decent damage!

 

[irdeggman]

Why would a monk ever use a weapon? He does far more damage with his fists, so the fast he has usable weapons is really silly (flavor aside).

I would find it more interesting if the weapons added something to his damage. It is hard to replace a hard hitting fist, just to get a +2 to trip.

Because it is easier to find magic weapons than to wait unitl the monks unarmed attacks work.

You can also get weapons with special properties like flaming or shock, things that could be real useful in the right situation.

But lacking a magic weapon issue, using unarmed attacks is almost always better.

 

[Dandu]

It would be sweet if you there were feats you could take to increase the damage die.

Like Improved Natural Attack?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Can someone explain this to me:

Why would a monk ever use a weapon? He does far more damage with his fists, so the fast he has usable weapons is really silly (flavor aside).

1) Some critters hurt you if you touch them with your unarmed strikes because they have thorns, spikes, elemental damage shields and so forth.

2) Some critters can't be hit by your unarmed strikes.

3) Your unarmed strikes don't usually have Reach, bonuses to Trip, bonuses to Disarm and so forth.

4) Your unarmed strikes can't usually be used at Range. This matters if you're fighting a flying dragon, for instance.

5) Weapons may be made with special materials that grant certain properties that you can't mimic with unarmed strike. An oversized 2Hd sword (usable by someone with Monkey Grip or Powerful Build) that is made of Alchemical Gold (see Magic of Faerun) will have its base damage output increased to 3d8, for instance.

6) Except for a few key feats or multiclassing options, it is usually easier to find or otherwise obtain weapons than boost your Monk's unarmed damage output.

Also, the unarmed attack feat... again, unless you are a monk, who takes this? Your damage doesn't increase, so you are limited to 1d3 or just slightly higher with mods. I ask about this because there are PrC of brawler for a fighter (or maybe they are fighter build options) and they are really cool, except they do crap damage and are pointless...

IUC can be handy if you are fighting with a Reach weapon and someone closes quarters with you. Instead of switching weapons, you Flying Mare Kick 'em in the nards.

It is also nice if you're disarmed, your weapon is sundered, or you're grappled.

Then, of course, there are critters you don't want to fight with weapons, like Rust Monsters and Disenchanters, for instance.

It would be sweet if you there were feats you could take to increase the damage die.

In addition to Improved Natural Attack, look into feats like Arcane Strike (for multiclassed arcanist/Monks) and others.

There is also the Hands as Weapons feat (and others) from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed/Arcana Evolved alternative to 3Ed/3.5 D&D. They don't necessarily increase the base damage die, but can definitely add to the overall damage.

 

[Dandu]

3) Your unarmed strikes don't usually have Reach, bonuses to Trip, bonuses to Disarm and so forth.

I would like to go on a tangent and point out that nunchaku and sai give +2 and +4 to disarming... and take a -4 penalty for being light weapons.

That means that the best monk weapon to use for disarming is not in fact one of the weapons designed for disarming, but the quarterstaff.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I would like to go on a tangent and point out that monk weapons that nunchaku and sai give +2 and +4 to disarming... and take a -4 penalty for being light weapons.

That means that the best monk weapon to use for disarming is not in fact one of the weapons designed for disarming, but the quarterstaff.

Until you expand your number of sourcebooks, at least: there are large numbers of weapons that can be added to the Monk weapon list via multiclassing, feats and alternative versions of the monk that exist in both WotC products and 3PPs. I would be surprised if there were not at least one that were a better disarming weapon.

But I haven't looked recently enough to be certain.

 

[pawsplay]

Improved Unarmed Strike is great for a rogue... catch a foe flat-footed and you can tear him apart with your bare hands. If you escaped from a jail cell and were completely without equipment, you could still drop a guard with surprise and pop his head off.