Monks Underpowered?

Monks are caster killers.

They aren't meant to be tanks. They are highly mobile combatants. They're supposed to take care of the problem enemies (usually ones that do lots of damage, but can't take much damage; like a wizard).

After the early levels, wizards will rock a fighter's world 9 times out of ten (and clerics will rock a fighter's world 11 times out of 10). This is where you send Mr Monk in. They have the speed to get around the caster's front line defense (without taking 4 rounds to do it). Even if they can't use that to get to where they need to go, they can dimension door, slowfall, or go ethereal to do it. They have 3 high saves, + evasion and spell resistance, meaning that they're extremely difficult for wizards to harm.

They are excellent at grappling (a fighter or barbarian can sometimes beat a monk in a grapple, but the monk will kill a wizard in a grapple faster than a fighter or barb could, especially a monk made for grappling), which is a caster's worst nightmare. Conc check just to cast a spell, can't cast spells with somatic components, material components require a move action to get (and they have to win a grapple check to do so) and verbal component spells can't be used if pinned (unless monk allows them to).

Outside of combat, the monk isn't useless like a fighter is either. They have good skill points and a decent skill list.

The monk is far from useless. In fact, in most games I've seen (where people roll their scores instead of using Point Buy and just happen to have 3-4 18s) the monk is overpowered because they can make extreme use of every stat except charisma.
 

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We actually had a monk once with 3x 18 and 1x 17, but he was really, really weak. That was 3.0 still, tho.

In general, high stats should be pretty good for them, altho most characters can make good use of high stats.

Inigo Carmine said:
They are excellent at grappling (a fighter or barbarian can sometimes beat a monk in a grapple, but the monk will kill a wizard in a grapple faster than a fighter or barb could, especially a monk made for grappling), which is a caster's worst nightmare. Conc check just to cast a spell, can't cast spells with somatic components, material components require a move action to get (and they have to win a grapple check to do so) and verbal component spells can't be used if pinned (unless monk allows them to).

Dunno, at moderate levels onwards, grapple does nothing to wizards anymore, unless you happen to have an antimagic field handy.

In our CotSQ campaign, we faced a really obscene grappling creature (over +40 grapple), and my Sorceress was about the only one able to actually do something after being grappled.

Bye
Thanee
 
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Thanee said:
Dunno, at moderate levels onwards, grapple does nothing to wizards anymore, unless you happen to have an antimagic field handy.

Bye
Thanee

That's why you hit those wizards with a Stunning Fist.
 


IcyCool said:
That's why you hit those wizards with a Stunning Fist.

Yeah Stunning Fist is quite good there; of course you have to hit with exactly that attack and the wizard has to fail the save, which isn't such a great chance all things considered. Most likely below 10%, if the wizard has some protections running, like Displacement or Blink.

Bye
Thanee
 

All the complaints I've ever heard (from groups I've been in anyways) about the monk all revolve around the monk's damage capability. And all the complaining people had put like a 10 into Strength. Strength is more important than most monk players realize. I always try to emphasize Strength, Wisdom, Constitution in that order. Dexterity is usually 4th in line, and I've never had any issues with contributing to combat or staying alive.
 

Thanee said:
Yeah Stunning Fist is quite good there; of course you have to hit with exactly that attack and the wizard has to fail the save, which isn't such a great chance all things considered. Most likely below 10%, if the wizard has some protections running, like Displacement or Blink.

Bye
Thanee

True, but you only really need to connect with one. Wizards aren't known for their high fortitude saves.
 

Yeoman said:
All the complaints I've ever heard (from groups I've been in anyways) about the monk all revolve around the monk's damage capability. And all the complaining people had put like a 10 into Strength. Strength is more important than most monk players realize. I always try to emphasize Strength, Wisdom, Constitution in that order. Dexterity is usually 4th in line, and I've never had any issues with contributing to combat or staying alive.

Monks belt + improved natural attack + enlarge person usually help a lot in the damage area ;)
 

Goolpsy said:
I liked the 3.0 Monk way more than the 3.5 ...

That was my thought. The 3.0 monk was the only thing that we called 'broken' (we hate that word) until our DM turned player brought out his crazy cheese druid. Stat generation, wealth, and access to third party published material make all the difference. A monk with really high stats and tons of complimentary gear are a wonder to behold.

A monk is not a tank (IMO). Use the monk's maneuverability (dodge tree) in combat to team up with the rogue and other party fighters. They are a great help, but if they try to be the front-line fighter, they usually drop after a couple of rounds.
 


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