Monster groups, simultaneous actions, and tactical movement

[Stalker0]

This is a thought that just occurred to me.

If you dm like me, and I think a lot of you do, when you have groups of the same kind of monster, you tend to have them move on the same initiative.

I think in 4e this will be more so, as groups of monsters is now the norm. Further, in 4e, tactical movement is very important, as there are lots of abilities that key of assistance from other monsters.

Take 3 gnolls for example with the pack attack ability (+1 to attack rolls for each ally adjacent). If you have them go on the same initiative, there are two ways it can go:

1) Each gnoll moves in on the PC one at a time and attacks. The first gets +0, second +1, and the third +2.

2) All 3 move in at once, and attack simultaneously. They all receive +2 to attacks (or perhaps 1 gets a +2, and 2 get a +1).

Obviously 2 is a more effective strategy for the dm, but is that how its supposed to work, or does 4e expect me to run the effects of each monster 1 at a time, even if its simultaneous?

Of course, you could always roll initiative for each monster, but I can tell you right now that is NOT going to happen

 

[eleran]

I have always run it as #2, simply because the PCs normally have the advantages so I like to give my monsters a little love that way when I can. This is their 5 minutes in the spotlight so I like to let them shine as much as possible as long as it doesnt swing the pendulum unfairly in their direction.

 

[Ulthwithian]

For me (and my players), I think that the method I use should be determined by the type of monster. Gnolls, while they can work together, just don't seem organized enough to me to pull off such coordinated tactics. Thus, option 1) would apply.

OTOH, Hobgoblins? Definitely attack like option 2). Also, most Soldier-type monsters would also use option 2).

One point that should be done is that you shouldn't penalize the players on this issue. The easiest example I can think of is if you have a Wizard Ready, say, a Flame Burst when a gnoll gets within 3 squares of him. If the gnolls are, say, 5 squares away, and you use option 1), then only 1 gnoll gets hit by the Burst. If, OTOH, you use option 2), then all of the gnolls should be hit.

Basically, make sure that you are internally consistent once you make a choice, even if you make that choice on an encounter-by-encounter basis.

 

[Terwox]

A DM running option 2 would annoy me to be honest.

The game is limited by turn-based movement. Moving outside of your turn is due to powers, not fiat -- even if you're a group of monsters.

It does save time, and there's no way I wouldn't move all three figs at once, but I'd give them +0, +1, and +2 attacks.

 

[Mort_Q]

Having a group use one initiative roll is fine. Having them move all at once... hmmmm... only if you let the PCs do it too.

That's my initial gut reaction. Must ponder.

 

[Festivus]

I usually use method 1, each individual creature acts on it's own internal sort of initiative. I usually number multiple combatants and go down in that numbered order, completing all phases of it's turn before moving to the next, and always progress in the same way.

There are times where I might move several figs at the same time, but it's only when they are not in melee combat... e.g. double moving several figs to join the fray.

 

[Ander00]

When DMing in third edition, I had groups of monsters effectively follow (2) when appropriate. You can simply run it as:

• a monster moves up and readies an action to attack the target when say, it flanks.
• next monster moves up and readies an attack for when the first one strikes.
• another approaches the PC, this time in flanking position with the first one.
• monsters 1 and 2 complete their readied actions, followed by monster 3's attack.

Just spelling it out like that is a bit cumbersome and time consuming. I don't know if this would still work in 4E, or if there might be something in the DMG telling you how to do it.


cheers

 

[malraux]

Option 2 is really just Monster 1 moves, then readies an attack triggered by his mates moving close. Then M2 moves and readies an attack triggered by the last guy moving. M3 moves, which triggers the two readied attack actions, which resets the first two monsters' initiatives to right before M3, which is where it was already. Then M3 attacks. So its legit, at least within 3e rules. 4e might work differently with readied actions.


edit: weird, I didn't see the ninjas, but obviously they were here.

 

[Mort_Q]

I didn't see the ninjas, but obviously they were here.

Ninjas make sense.

 

[LostSoul]

Just spelling it out like that is a bit cumbersome and time consuming.

I think you'd want to spell it out like that. A PC might have a power that triggers when opponents move, and if he waits to use it on the last monster, none of the other monsters are going to be able to take their readied action.