Monsters and Multiple Attacks

[Kerranin]

A good reason for keeping the claw attack seperate is to allow the monster to be scaled levels without having 'special' handling for the double claw attack.

If I level up the dragon and increase the damage, the double-claw attack automatically scales with the claw attack.

On a related note, I've often seen creatures with these double attacks which have a secondary power if both hit the same target. (A grab for instance)

 

[Dausuul]

Have a look at the icons as well. The "Claw" is a basic attack, and therefore can be used with an AoO (or , if there was another way of granting basic attacks, like a dragon lord riding the dragon ), whereas the "Double Claw" is not, and therefore cannot be used with anything except a standard action on the dragons turn.

So when would you ever use "Claw" instead of "Double claw" on a standard action during the dragon turn? Never (unless you are going easy on the party). When would you use "Double claw" instead of "Claw" outside of the dragons turn? Never...its illegal.

Normally you wouldn't ever have occasion to use a single claw attack; you'd double attack on the dragon's turn and bite for OAs. However, there's always the odd corner case where the dragon has something in its mouth or some such. And as Kerranin points out, it makes it easier to scale.

 

[Squire James]

I tend to stat out all the monsters in my game, normally starting from something there in the Monster Builder and "seasoning to taste". For dragons of adult age or older, I make Claw a Minor Action and remove the multiple attack abilities that involve claws. I am of the opinion that Solos really ought to have something to do with their Minor Actions, and this fits the classic Claw-Claw-Bite dragon attack pattern perfectly!

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yeah, minor actions don't usually see a LOT of use by monsters, but they are always there available for things like making Perception checks and such. So I'm not certain that using them for attacks works, at least not for all types of monsters. A skirmisher for instance in this scheme has to choose between moving and attacking (a move and attack standard action could mitigate that some). It does rather complicate understanding the monster's damage output though, as if it has to use minor actions and move actions for other things in a given situation it could find itself shorn of half its offense.

My preference is to keep things generally with the dual attack style powers. In say the case of a dragon they generally just give it a way to split damage between 2 targets (1 strong bite vs 2 weaker claw attacks). Minor actions can thus be kept for specialist powers like lurker mechanics or maybe an escape power or secondary control power (often something with a recharge or encounter use).

PCs are mostly built along the same lines, and much for the same reasons. Attacks ALMOST always take up only the character's standard action, keeping movement and minor actions open for other activities. That also allows for a predictable damage output.

 

[BobTheNob]

Normally you wouldn't ever have occasion to use a single claw attack; you'd double attack on the dragon's turn and bite for OAs. However, there's always the odd corner case where the dragon has something in its mouth or some such. And as Kerranin points out, it makes it easier to scale.

To scale...get it...its a Dragon! You see, dragons have...

Never mind, I will shut up now