D&D 5E Monsters of Many Names - Wandering Monsters (Yugoloth!)

[Kobold Avenger]

Yugoloth sounds somewhat similiar to Yuggoth, something lovecraftian.

But for the Yugoloths identities beyond the hidden manipulators/power of the Lower Planes, is one should emphasize the Disease themes and the Multiverse-destroyer themes for them.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm asking for those who love Yugoloths to showcase what is great and unique about them.

I mentioned upthread that the stories you tell with these creatures are different.

To a typical NPC in the world, there might not be much difference, but to an NPC in the world, the village in the next valley may as well be the Far Realm for all they know about it. The PC's themselves are probably alien entities of untold violence and magic to most of the typical NPC's in the world. So that's not a useful perspective.

But the stories you tell with these creatures are different. Yugoloths are the puppetmasters behind every conspiracy (and then some). Gehreleths are filth-eaters who consume and become the sins of the multitude and keep the worst locked up. Devils are soul-brokers and corruptors. Demons are engines of destruction and entropy.

Those stories aren't exclusive, because you can tell a story about a corrupting influence on a kingdom with just a bag of humans and call it good. But these creatures serve as seeds and hooks for these stories, props you can use to enable them. That's a useful purpose, and a distinction worth saving. A world full of diverse antagonists is much more interesting than one that lumps everything together under and calls it fine.

 

[Balesir]

I'm asking for those who love Yugoloths to showcase what is great and unique about them.

As a confirmed fan of both Planescape and 4E who likes the 'loths a lot, here's my shot:

First, it wasn't the gods that made mortals, it was the Primordials, who made the demons/yugoloths, too. I like the 4E Epic adventures take on this: the Primordials made the world but were about to destroy it (to remake it anew - the old life-death cycle) when the gods intervened (because they thought it was beautiful) with their servants (the angels). Now:

Devils are servants of the gods (angels) who have rebelled because "the Primordials are the real creators". They want to corrupt and collect mortal souls (to make them suitable to feed their rebellion and then use them to do so).

Demons are spawn of the primordials who hate the gods for overthrowing their progenitors; they want to inculcate hate in mortals to strengthen their forces with the mortal souls, eventually to overthrow the gods and destroy the universe (just as their progenitors had meant to happen).

Yugoloths are progeny of the Primordials, but, like mortals, they have decided that they are fine with continuing to exist. They despise the gods, though, for their genocide against their ancestors, and they despise mortals for sucking up to the divine impostors. Devils they find intriguing, but still divine impostors; demons they despise for wanting to end the existence they have come rather to value.

The 'loths intentions in the Blood War are actually simple: keep it going so that the demons and devils are at least somewhat distracted from their other objectives!

In addition, some 'loths might have found ways to contact imprisoned (generally more "benign", in the sense of not wanting what the demons want) Primordials and be serving their interests, as they were originally created to do.

But this is just one example: each (game) world could have its own schema for this sort of cosmic background.

Edit: in terms of game roles. 'loths could make good allies/foils against either demons or devils, or could be furthering the (obscure) plans of imprisoned Primordials in the world, something both demons and devils tend to be too tied up with their own ends to be good for.

 

[Klaus]

As a confirmed fan of both Planescape and 4E who likes the 'loths a lot, here's my shot:

Thanks for the contribution.

One aspect to consider is their plane of origin, and how that might influence the race as a whole. For instance:

- Devils <-> Nine Hells: hierarchical, with a clear leader and chain of command.
- Demons <-> Abyss: unpredictable, with no rhyme or reason and no single leader, possibly infinite in numbers.
- Daemons <-> Gray Waste: The Gray Waste has a lot in common with 4e's Shadowfell, with its malaise and dreary atmosphere. Perhaps daemons don't want to rule you, or destroy. Perhaps they want you to live in misery, sapping empathy and goodwill from the world, undermining the efforts of the charitable and selfless?
- Demodands <-> Carceri: the refuse of the planes. Maybe they're created by the very act of imprisoning powerful beings in Carceri, a disgusting side effect that corrupt everything they touch?

 

[Dausuul]

I mentioned upthread that the stories you tell with these creatures are different.

To a typical NPC in the world, there might not be much difference, but to an NPC in the world, the village in the next valley may as well be the Far Realm for all they know about it. The PC's themselves are probably alien entities of untold violence and magic to most of the typical NPC's in the world. So that's not a useful perspective.

But the stories you tell with these creatures are different. Yugoloths are the puppetmasters behind every conspiracy (and then some). Gehreleths are filth-eaters who consume and become the sins of the multitude and keep the worst locked up. Devils are soul-brokers and corruptors. Demons are engines of destruction and entropy.

Those stories aren't exclusive, because you can tell a story about a corrupting influence on a kingdom with just a bag of humans and call it good. But these creatures serve as seeds and hooks for these stories, props you can use to enable them. That's a useful purpose, and a distinction worth saving. A world full of diverse antagonists is much more interesting than one that lumps everything together under and calls it fine.

I've always seen "puppetmaster behind every conspiracy" as much more of the devils' role. What is Asmodeus if not a puppetmaster? Making daemons/'loths into the puppetmasters behind the puppetmasters seems excessive--there's only so many layers of intrigue you can profitably add to the "common lore" of the game, which is available for everybody to read.

IMO, if the fiends of the middle planes are to have a grand cosmic role, it should be as the bringers of despair. Demons want to destroy the world and devils want to rule it. Daemons/'loths don't give a damn either way. They just want to bring an end to all light and joy and happiness. Their purpose is absolute darkness, whether that darkness results from the world's destruction or from its being ground under Asmodeus's heel. Basically, they're dementors.

I'd also be inclined to move incorporeal undead into their domain. Orcus may animate dead flesh, but daemons are the ones who bind dead spirits.

 

[avin]

Not really helpful, avin. I'm asking for those who love Yugoloths to showcase what is great and unique about them. If there isn't anything really unique about them, then we should try and give them a better identity.

That's my point. What's so great and unique about different kind of Halflings? Why do we need goblins and kobolds? I think the point here is not what makes them unique, because we have tons of races with no much to add in D&D which are loved because somebody uses them.

4E lore was mostly a huge mistake in my opinion, pushing into generalizations such as City of Shadows, City of Splendors...

I see no point in finding something to make them soooo diferent from Devils and Demons just because most of games are in Material Plane. Planescape is filled with stories, descriptions and good stories about the Loths... it would be a shame to lose them (as in 4E) in the name of a clear distinction between monsters and races.

 

[Klaus]

That's my point. What's so great and unique about different kind of Halflings? Why do we need goblins and kobolds? I think the point here is not what makes them unique, because we have tons of races with no much to add in D&D which are loved because somebody uses them.

4E lore was mostly a huge mistake in my opinion, pushing into generalizations such as City of Shadows, City of Splendors...

I see no point in finding something to make them soooo diferent from Devils and Demons just because most of games are in Material Plane. Planescape is filled with stories, descriptions and good stories about the Loths... it would be a shame to lose them (as in 4E) in the name of a clear distinction between monsters and races.

So you see no merit in trying to pinpoint the best qualities of a monster race? Not even enough to make an effort?

For halflings: some like the pastoral hobbitses, others prefer the little gipsies. For kobolds: small, weak, pathetic creatures than turn to trapmaking as the grand equalizers. Goblins: small nasties, pretty much evil chimps who ride giant wolves. Hobgoblins: militaristic humanoids waging perpetual war on everyone else. Orcs: barbaric raiders that despoil everything they touch. Bugbears: children's bogeymen in feral form. And so on and so forth.

Devils: fallen celestials who corrupt and seduce mortals to gain their souls and rule the world. Demons: misshapen, possibly numberless monstrosities bent on universal destruction. At least play along.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I've always seen "puppetmaster behind every conspiracy" as much more of the devils' role.

I noted that these stories aren't exclusive, and that's what plays in here. Conspiracies aren't unique to yugoloths. You can do a conspiracy with nothing more than two shopkeepers and a small village.

But the focus on obfuscation and manipulation for nefarious, wicked, self-interested purposes is a trait of the yugoloths that serves as a prop for that kind of story. They're a signifier. If you're putting on a play and there's an old beaten baseball scoreboard in the background, you can infer that there's something to do with baseball happening on stage in some way. If you're putting on a D&D game and a yugoloth makes an appearance, you can infer that there's layers of lies and hidden agendas in this game, and that it will involve things like Insight checks and red herring encounters and some sort of struggle to arrive at the truth. You don't need a beaten scoreboard to tell a story about baseball, and you don't need yugoloths to tell a story about manipulative masters of conspiracy, but both are useful props for that kind of story.

Devils can be conspiracy-minded, too. Demons can be, too. Heck, Slaadi could be involved in a conspiracy. No one said they couldn't. You don't need any particular monster to tell that particular story, but you can also use a particular monster to help you tell a particular story. But just because something else can be doesn't mean that there shouldn't be creatures who are about that.

What is Asmodeus if not a puppetmaster?

He's a fallen angel. Which befits his role as an antagonist interested in corruption and sin. He wants the whole world to be like him: to turn their backs on the goodness in their souls and embrace the evil that always simmers below the surface. He's happy in a world where everyone's his friend (well, loyal peon, but still) because they're all like him and he has shown them the way to embracing their true nature.

The loths are happy in a world of fools where no one knows who they are because they're always just out of reach, doing things for their own purposes.

Devils want to see you fall. Yugoloths just want to see you be useful to them.

Why do we need goblins and kobolds?

Kobolds help you tell this story.

Goblins help you tell this one.

Personally, I think it's very possible to distinguish these things, because to me they are quite distinct.

They don't have to be. You don't have to have any monsters. Slap some stats on a business card and make stuff up.

But there's a valuable story, a valuable play experience behind these creatures as I see them. Behind yugoloths and gehreleths, too.

 

[Klaus]

>snip<

All this talk of conspiracies, coupled with the Ultroloth's appearance, makes me draw a parallell between 'loths and Men in Black and Greys. A hidden race of evil immortal beings, silently orchestrating the misery of human existence to fuel their power?

 

[Weather Report]

I'm asking for those who love Yugoloths to showcase what is great and unique about them.

They are true evil, not the ordered Mafioso of the Devils, and not psychopaths like Demons, they just want suffering (which they take no joy from, yet have no remorse, it's like a mundane job).

Oh, and they're not all mortal soul-obssesed like the other two.