monstrous martial adepts and initiator level

[Bad Paper]

a rakshasa swordsage: what's its initiator level?

The discussion of multiclass characters and initiator level on page 39 of the Tome of Battle says that you add half of your other class levels to your initiator level, but what about monstrous hit dice?

 

[Arkhandus]

Strictly speaking, only class levels count, not racial hit dice.

 

[Thurbane]

Don't racial HD count as "levels" of Outsider or whatever? I'm not that familiar with Bo9S, but this seems to be the way it works with most other things. I'd treat the Rakshasa as multiclassed in the Outsider class.

Racial Hit Dice: A rakshasa begins with seven levels of outsider, which provide 7d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +7, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +5, Ref +5, and Will +5.

 

[Zurai]

Strictly speaking, only class levels count, not racial hit dice.

Not true. The section on Initiator Level says you get 1/2 your character level (not class level) if you lack martial adept levels, and the process applies to all of the character's levels regardless of source. Since monster HD are considered levels for the purpose of determining Effective Character Level (hell, the MM even says that each monster has its own monster class as a favored class), it's perfectly within the rules to give 1/2 HD to Initiator Level.

 

[Jhaelen]

IIRC, Mike Mearls commented on this in a thread on the WotC boards. I don't remember what the gist of what he said was. I just vaguely remember he mentioned to be careful about it because some monsters, like giants would become a lot tougher than they already are.

Maybe someone has a better memory or can point us to the thread.

 

[frankthedm]

Not true. The section on Initiator Level says you get 1/2 your character level (not class level) if you lack martial adept levels, and the process applies to all of the character's levels regardless of source. Since monster HD are considered levels for the purpose of determining Effective Character Level (hell, the MM even says that each monster has its own monster class as a favored class), it's perfectly within the rules to give 1/2 HD to Initiator Level.

Yep. Fair is fair, Melee character get a wire fu upgrade, so do the monsters*.

IIRC, Mike Mearls commented on this in a thread on the WotC boards. I don't remember what the gist of what he said was. I just vaguely remember he mentioned to be careful about it because some monsters, like giants would become a lot tougher than they already are.

Then maybe Bo9S classes multiclass a little too well.

*The critter's CR should still recieve a playtest.

 

[Bad Paper]

hill giant = CR 7
hill giant Warblade 6 @ initiator level 12 = CR 13?

Mayyybe. After all, maneuvers have prereqs like "two Iron Heart maneuvers" and such, but whew, scary.

I'll go poke around the hated WotC boards and see what I can find.