D&D 4E Morale Check in 4E

[the-golem]

Going through some old TSR modules, I noticed plenty of places where it called for a "morale check" to see the creature in question was scared/untrained enough to run like the dickens.

4E, as far as I've noticed, doesn't have any set rules for this. So, how could I incorporate this into my game? For example, the players encounter a group of monster quite beyond their abilities -- or so they think. As the encounter wears on however, this overlarge group of baddies notice some of their comrads dropping like flies, and must make a 'morale check' to see if they break ranks.

Should I reflect this by a roll against their will defense, or should I make it a "saving throw" where 10- means failure, and 11+ means success? What do the might EN Citizens think?

 

[VinAlanson]

Check out the description of the monster in the MM and see if it is cowardly, brutish, etc and under what conditions.
Predetermine the tactic in specific situations i.e if the leader dies x creatures run away, if 1/2 the monster's mates/allies die they run away; they stay and fight to the bitter end, they give up if offered money etc etc.
Don't need morale if you do it like that.
If you have thought some of these situations through and the PC's do something different if gives you a baseline to determine what the monsters will do.
Are the monsters bribable, what acts as a bribe (money, trinkets, food)
There are also DC's set for being intimidated, diplomacied, bluffed or you can set DC's for it.

 

[1of3]

You could certainly make a morale rule for monsters.

I'd use some modified saving throw.

 

[BobTheNob]

The difficulty is that fear effects are more a subset of the mechanics of individual powers than a blanket rule as it was in the past. Things like push effects, to-hit penalties and so forth.

The difficulty with 4e in this regard is that a principal of its design is results=pre-investment. For players to get a desired reaction from the opposition, a feat or power that prompts said response is just part and parcel.

Might I suggest coming up with feats that provide fear effects as riders on powers. For instance, a feat that once per battle allows a power with the fear word that pushes a target to do it a second round. Or a feat that modifies a series of at-wills across classes (like Divine Domain feats) to incorporate fear riders.

Maybe even come up with a few new utility powers based on the intimidate skill

 

[fba827]

Going through some old TSR modules, I noticed plenty of places where it called for a "morale check" to see the creature in question was scared/untrained enough to run like the dickens.

4E, as far as I've noticed, doesn't have any set rules for this. So, how could I incorporate this into my game? For example, the players encounter a group of monster quite beyond their abilities -- or so they think. As the encounter wears on however, this overlarge group of baddies notice some of their comrads dropping like flies, and must make a 'morale check' to see if they break ranks.

Should I reflect this by a roll against their will defense, or should I make it a "saving throw" where 10- means failure, and 11+ means success? What do the might EN Citizens think?

Well, if you prescribe to the idea that 0hp does not necessarily mean "dead" then you can verbally describe 0 hp as "the kobold drops his weapon and cowers on the ground from the beat down he just received and/or watched his friends receive" (this might also be a good way to describe minions going to 0 since they aren't as invested in the combat as say the leader of their gang is).

alternatively, just see if the players want to start using intimidate as a skill in combat more often (that is against the creatures will defenses -- check out the intimidate skill description for details on that).

maybe you decide ahead of time which creatures are not "important" in the combat (as in, they aren't invested heavily in the outcome and are only coming as followers), and then say that when someone like that gets to bloodied, that's when they start to run away. whereas the important people will fight until reduced to 0.

finally, as the dm, just decide when enough is enough -- has a particular creature seen so much that the situation/circumstance warrants that he/she will give / flee / etc ? If so, then just do that.


(Personally, i am glad that there isn't a morale entry anymore because it created weird situations. I much prefer the DM to make a judgment call based on the situation as to which creatures would have had enough and flee and which would continue to fight)

 

[mkill]

Well, if you prescribe to the idea that 0hp does not necessarily mean "dead" then you can verbally describe 0 hp as "the kobold drops his weapon and cowers on the ground from the beat down he just received and/or watched his friends receive" (this might also be a good way to describe minions going to 0 since they aren't as invested in the combat as say the leader of their gang is).

This. Creatures with a low morale are minions. They get into the fight, but when they notice the opposition is tough enough to really harm them, they fall on the ground and play dead, sneak away, teleport out, run like hell, whatever you like.

Of course, you can also just roleplay it: I once ran a battle with gnolls and hyenas, and when the hyenas received some serious pounding and were one hit away from defeat, they decided to run for it.

Just use common sense: A fanatic cultist will fight to the death. A demon who knows he'll just reappear somewhere in the abyss later doesn't need to care about being hit.
But what about a city guard with wife and kids? What about a highwayman who's just in it for the easy cash? Do they really want to risk their life against a bunch of professional spell-slinging, armed-to-the-teeth mercenaries? I don't think so.

Just set a certain value (say, when first bloodied) at which certain enemies will beg for mercy / offer retreat / try to negotiate / get the hell out.

I would not make this a new rules subsystem with morale rolls or whatever. This just restrains your creative freedom in staging encounters and creates a new bookkeeping headache.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I can't move threads at the moment due to a database glitch, but can I ask you to restart this question in the 4e house rules thread please? I'm sure that there have been a number of threads on this very issue (and potential solutions too) .

Thanks

 

[Jhaelen]

4E, as far as I've noticed, doesn't have any set rules for this.

There is no rule because it's up to you to decide! No rule, no matter how complex could be better than your judgement regarding monster morale.

 

[Amaroq]

There is no rule because it's up to you to decide! No rule, no matter how complex could be better than your judgement regarding monster morale.

Agreed.

I typically write myself a "morale" section as part of the "Tactics" section when I'm writing an encounter, describing specific conditions in the battle which may cause somebody's morale to break.

For example, I had some wolfrider archers paired with their wolf, and decided that the wolves would take off and run if the wolfrider was killed and the wolf was bloodied.

Likewise, I had an encounter with a named BBEG, two soldiers, and eight minions, so I set it up that any minions which outlasted the BBEG would flee.

On the other hand, writing up a series of undead encounters, there's no need for morale in most cases.

As long as the conditions are realistic enough, it feels organic, and my players don't know in advance what's going to precipitate flight on any given battle.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Agreed with Amaroq. Also, a morale check in the 3.X and 4E initiative system doesn't work very well IMO. It's not like all bad guys actually get the chance to flee simultaneously or even do so as an immediate response to some particular beat down.