Morality of mind control…

[Morrus]

Is it more evil than killing someone? We don't have qualms about that in D&D.

I'd certainly rather somebody did a jedi mind trick on me than stabbed me in a face with a big sharp pointy thing.

 

[cranberry]

I usually limit mind control (of PCs) to combat related things such as "Drop you sword" "stand there and do nothing" "Walk away", etc.

So evil really doesn't come into play.

 

[tetrasodium]

Mind control is a tool, and the degree of evil it is depends on what you use it for. But that doesn't mean it's entirely neutral. A suggestion-type effect that lets you bypass a larger problem (e.g. the Jedi Mind Trick as used by Obi-Wan Kenobi) is fair. The same magic used to make someone tell you all their secrets so you can blackmail them is not.

I think the larger danger is that of corruption. If you have the ability to control minds, that can be a really easy way out sometimes. For an example of this, look at season 6 of Buffy where Willow and Tara get into a nasty fight, and afterward Willow removes Tara's memory of it. This is really similar to traditional murder-hoboing: "I'll take what I want and no-one's strong enough to stop me", but a little more subtle.

I'm going to second this and add to it the fact that Star wars is too simplistic on too many sometimes cartoonish levels for the JMT (jedi mind trick) to be at all relevant to the OP's question. The JMT is really little more than a particularly quick and effective hypnotic suggestion towards an agreeably lazy choice rather than mind control.

Babylon 5 is a much better example of media where the ethics of telepathy and mind control get actual screentime devoted to exploring these kinds of questions that range from how much freedom and oversight telepaths should be allowed to using telepathy to forcibly tear memories from the unwilling along with much more including how far beyond baseline till a telepath becomes something else personality/identity erasure including both sides of how far more advanced telepathic races like the first ones view/interact with lesser developed races

JMT is just the art of stuffing a good propaganda campaign into a casual comment with a gesture

Edit: old ones should have been first ones

 

[loverdrive]

Is it more evil than killing someone? We don't have qualms about that in D&D.

I'd certainly rather somebody did a jedi mind trick on me than stabbed me in a face with a big sharp pointy thing.

To which extent, though? Jedi mind tricks, sure, but it can be worse.

Would you prefer being necromancer's thrall to death? What if your body (that everyone else perceives as you) was to do abhorrent or humiliating things? What if you were forced to watch it, helpless, unable even to scream?

 

[loverdrive]

For a silly little semantic tangent for fun, where does mind control start? Sure, just directly replacing their thoughts with yours is mind control.

Is, say, creating an illusory fake object that only a specific person can see can see mind control? You are manipulating their perception of reality, that sounds pretty mindcontrol-y to me.

What if you were to spend a week creating illusory objects, and sounds, and smells for a guy, making them doubt their sanity? What if you systematically impersonated their loved ones to make it appear like they are plotting against him? Will that be mind control?

What if illusions were visible to everyone or even were tangible objects? If you use them to convince the guy there's a grand plot against him, why isn't that mind control? Or maybe it is?

 

[Koloth]

As Jedi mind tricks go, was Rey's use of same to escape the Chair of Interrogation moral? The faceless storm trooper wasn't really harmed. Probably would have had some explaining to do later about the missing weapon. Except the whole base blew up. Which is more evil, a mind trick that leaves the person unharmed or mass murder to stop a weapon from firing?

By modern standards, pretty much anything the average RPG party does is evil. The basic dungeon crawl is a version of break and enter, mass murder, looting and then celebrating afterwards at the local pub. Worrying about the use of a charm spell in the midst of being a murder hobo seems a bit silly.

 

[Morrus]

As Jedi mind tricks go, was Rey's use of same to escape the Chair of Interrogation moral? The faceless storm trooper wasn't really harmed.

Also he was Daniel Craig.

 

[Reynard]

I tend to think of "evil" in terms of harm caused. With mind control, there are a few aspects that we can use to measure that.

First, is the victim aware that they are being controlled but have no capacity to do otherwise? That is traumatic and harmful and therefore evil.

Even if the victim is convinced the thing they are doing is something they actually want to do, are they being compelled to do something they would otherwise NOT want to do? If so, that brings harm after the fact and is evil.

Forcing someone to use their body for something they do not consent to is an obvious evil, but what about using their authority or access?

And then all of this has to narrow to the target. Are you mind controlling space nazis? If so, the evil of the mind control is irrelevant in the face of the evil that would have otherwise been committed by the space nazis.

So when a player in my D&D 2024 game recently used suggestion (broken as hell in 2024) to have the dragon's lieutenant up and leave the cave before the fight started, should I have dinged the PC for using an evil action even though their sheet says "neutral good"? I don't think so.

 

[Voadam]

The last time I used charm person as a good PC I used it to interrogate bad guys instead of intimidation. I was really sick of threats of torture coming from other (not good) PCs.

I remember using it on a guard and taking him out to lunch/buy drinks at a bar off duty to get him to chat and spill info on his employers.

 

[Cergorach]

Is mind control always evil?

It kind of depends exactly what you mean by mind control. But as with anything, a thing is not just good or evil, it's the use of it. Buttering my bread with a knife is OK, stabbing random people is not.

I prefer mind alteration, if you can use an ability that affects the mind to influence someone not to attack you, is that Evil(tm)? And where does the line lie with abilities/spells that alter the mind(set) vs. skills to manipulate people?

I could see actual beneficial uses for people not to hurt themselves, treatment of trauma, addiction, etc.

Is a Charm Person to avoid combat/killing bad vs. using Hold Person and stab someone to death? And when one considers killing others an Evil(tm) act, would that make soldiers Evil(tm)?