Morality of mind control…

[GMMichael]

Is mind control always evil? If so, why?

Hodor.

Can mind control be used for good? If so, how?

Hodor, hodor hodor. Hodor hodor.

 

[overgeeked]

Hodor.

Hodor, hodor hodor. Hodor hodor.

I'm sure that means something to someone, but it's not me.

 

[MGibster]

Is it more evil than killing someone? We don't have qualms about that in D&D.

I'd certainly rather somebody did a jedi mind trick on me than stabbed me in a face with a big sharp pointy thing.

I'd rather be the victim of a Jedi mind trick than being stabbed in the face a well. We should form a club. One of the most horrifying examples of mind control I've seen on television was David Tennant's portrayal of Kilgrave in Jessica Jones. I don't know how long I could be his puppet before I started praying for death.

I'm not sure that's true (and I mean that literally; it might be true, but I'm not certain). Mind control isn't necessary permanent. Death?

Imagine being under the control of your enemy who orders you to kill or otherwise harm your comrades and loved ones. You're completely aware of what you're doing but you simply cannot disobey. I honestly might prefer death.

The Charm Person spell specifically notes that the recipient is aware of the charm and is hostile to the caster. Mind Control is at best unsavory, and at worst a cardinal evil.

The 2024 PHB says the victim is aware they were charmed once the spell wears out but doesn't state they're hostile.

 

[Morrus]

I'd rather be the victim of a Jedi mind trick than being stabbed in the face a well. We should form a club. One of the most horrifying examples of mind control I've seen on television was David Tennant's portrayal of Kilgrave in Jessica Jones. I don't know how long I could be his puppet before I started praying for death.

Sure, but somebody with a sharp thing could make you feel just as bad for just as long. Both are tools; we can posit scenarios where either one is worse ad infinitum.

 

[Staffan]

Mind control to stop an alcoholic from rock climbing while drunk, a drug addict from overdosing, a distraught parent from taking their life or another's immediately after the loss of a child, etc. Lots of scenarios one could conceive in which the use of mind control could be viewed as a moral act, and likewise lots of scenarios one could conceive in which a lie could be seen as a far more egregious, immoral violation.

This can be a bit setting-dependent. I'm going to get into some spoilers for the Dresden Files series, specifically Proven Guilty.

Spoiler: Proven Guilty

In this, Harry Dresden (wizard/private investigator) learns that Molly, the daughter of his best friend Michael Carpenter, has a magical talent, and that she used it on one of her friends who had gotten another one of her friends pregnant, in order to make him give up drugs and take care of the girl and the baby.
This seems like an altruistic use of magic for mind control, but the way magic works in the Dresdenverse is that a practitioner can't use magic to do things they don't truly deep down believe is right. (This is also why wizards are forbidden to use magic to kill mortals, including other wizards, so those who find the need to take lives would use weaponry instead.) So what Molly has done is essentially to say that she knows better than her friends what's good for them, and this does leave a spiritual stain on her, first causing powerful fey creatures to target her and her friends (because they feed on the supernatural fear she has instilled in her friend), and later leading to Harry having to take her in as an apprentice and taking responsibility for her actions, putting both him and her under a Doom of Damocles (basically a suspended death sentence in case she falls back into black magic).

Now, this is specific to how magic works in the Dresdenverse – breaking the laws of magic corrupts you and makes you more likely to break them again in the future. But it is an example of how even seemingly altruistic mind control can be evil.

 

[grimslade]

I'm sure that means something to someone, but it's not me.

From Game of thrones:
AI summation Hodor's condition wasn't caused by a single instance of mind control but a tragic, closed-loop time event where Bran Stark's actions in the present sent a command back in time, forcing young Hodor (Wylis) to experience his own future death. This mental trauma fractured Wylis's mind, causing the seizures and mental breakdown that permanently altered his brain and led him to repeat the phrase "Hold the Door" as "Hodor," his lifelong, only word.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It is easy to see Obi-Wan as a master manipulator trying to revive a dying cult through mind control and indoctrination, from a certain point of view.

I see what you did there.

No, you don't.

No, I don't.

 

[Staffan]

I'm sure that means something to someone, but it's not me.

Game of Thrones spoilers:

Spoiler

One of the main characters in Game of Thrones is Bran Stark, who as a child in the first episode was pushed from a high tower leading to his legs being permanently useless. A simple-minded but very large and strong servant, Hodor, is assigned as his assistant, carrying him from place to place. Hodor has some sort of mental disability, and the only word he can say is "Hodor" so that's what everyone calls him rather than his given name, Wylls.
It also turns out that Bran is a Warg, a person who can do various mind shenanigans. Untrained, this mostly leads to weird dreams as his mind is projected into various animals and he experiences things from their perspective. He gradually learns to use these abilities more actively even if he doesn't fully understand them. These abilities can also sometimes transcend time and space, so he can warg into someone distant and/or in the past and experience things as if he were there.
At some point, Bran, Hodor, and some others are hiding in some underground tunnels as they are pursued by zombies. Hodor is trying to keep the zombies out by blocking the door to their hiding place, but he starts to falter. Bran then wargs into Hodor, forcing him to keep Holding the Door, and his untrained mental powers travel back in time to young Wylls, severely damaging his mind and making him unable to say anything other than "Hodor", which is short for "Hold the Door".

 

[TiQuinn]

I'd rather be the victim of a Jedi mind trick than being stabbed in the face a well. We should form a club. One of the most horrifying examples of mind control I've seen on television was David Tennant's portrayal of Kilgrave in Jessica Jones. I don't know how long I could be his puppet before I started praying for death.

Imagine being under the control of your enemy who orders you to kill or otherwise harm your comrades and loved ones. You're completely aware of what you're doing but you simply cannot disobey. I honestly might prefer death.

Oooh, yes. Great example. Still one of the best villains Marvel ever put on screen!

 

[kermit4karate]

The Charm Person spell specifically notes that the recipient is aware of the charm and is hostile to the caster. Mind Control is at best unsavory, and at worst a cardinal evil. Murder is wrong.

The problem here is taking the guides as gospel and not trying to interpret what "the founders" must have meant. Charm Person against an ambivalent person who doesn't know you from Adam is one thing, but Charm Person on someone who's already a friend? How about a family member? A good ally?

If my best bud isn't paying attention and is about to walk off a cliff or into oncoming traffic and I use Charm Person to stop him in his tracks and save his life, do we honestly think he'd be hostile toward me after he comes to his senses and realizes that, dude, you just saved my life!

There's what the guide literally says about something, and then there's common sense.