More questions regarding Arcane Disciple...

[Hypersmurf]

This part is true, but could a bard use it since Cure Light Wounds is on the bard's spell list?

Absolutely. It would be an arcane scroll of a spell on the bard's list.

It's the same as if a Wizard scribes a scroll with a Cleric supplying Cure Light Wounds as the prerequisite. Since the creator is the Wizard, it's an arcane scroll.

We end up with a scroll that the Wizard can't use, since CLW isn't on his list; that the cleric can't use, since the scroll is not divine; but that the bard can use, since he's an arcane caster with CLW on his class list.

With Arcane Disciple, the Wizard is just another type of arcane caster with CLW on his class list.

-Hyp.

 

[Pax]

Unless you're reading the feat from a source different than the Complete Divine, the feat says no such thing. However it does say this:

A confusion on my part between AD and the Rainbow Servant PrC; my apologies.

However ...

I don't see why not. There's nothing that says she can't.

Nice way to completely misrepresent my statement by taking it out of context. That's HALF of what I was saying.

The point was that, IF the Wizard scribed a scroll of CLW, he could not hand it to a sorceror or other wizard, and expect anything except a look of confusion form them. The sorceror could not claimit as "an unusual arcane spell" to learn on level-up, and the non-AD wizard friend couldn't scribe it into his spellbook ... arcane spell or not.

This part is true, but could a bard use it since Cure Light Wounds is on the bard's spell list?

Absolutely! And the Wizard could use a Bard scroll of Cure Light Wounds, too!

If this is the exact quote from the feat, then it seems like it would allow you to scribe the spells into your spellbook. And if you can scribe them into your spellbook, why can't you prepare them more than once?

Simple: because the feat says so. RTFM.

 

[Scharlata]

Hi!

The text for AD states, that you "add the chosen domain's spells to your class list of arcane spells" and that you "may learn these spells as normal for your class".

As stated on page 178 of the PHB Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook, "you can learn spells only from schools whose spells [you] can cast".

Scribe Scrolls states that "you can create a scroll of any spell that you know".

The conclusion must be, that you add the domain spells to your list of arcane spells (as per the feat) and have to pen them in the universal magical language into your spellbook (if you use one). After you've done so, you are able to scribe a scroll with a penned and thereby learned [domain] spell.

Just do the follwing:
1.) Be true to your god's alignment.
2.) Spend 4 skill points on ranks for Knowledge (religion) and another 4 skill points on ranks for Spellcraft.
3.) Be an arcane spellcaster.
4.) Buy the feat with an appropriate feat slot (the early bird may take it as soon as 3rd level).
5.) Chose a domain and be aware that the domain's spells are now on your arcane list (not yet in your spellbook).
6.) Fetch your gold purse and buy some ink for the spells you are allowed to learn (no spells higher than your attained spell level maximum) or wait until you gain 2 spells for free advancing in levels (maybe as soon as 3rd level taking the feat Arcane Disciple).
7.) Pen your spell(s) into your spellbook.
8.a) Prepare the learned spell(s) at your discretion.
8.b) Scribe the spell(s) onto a scroll.
9.) Sell the spells to a bard for profit, because you may be the one who get some spells at lower spell levels and therefore may pen them at a cheaper price.
10.) Correct me if I'm wrong.

Kind regards

 

[Thanee]

Which means the Wizard can't take AD, scribe a scroll of cure light wounds, and hand it to a Sorceror or another Wizard to study and learn from. Sorry.

You probably know that yourself, but just to be sure... of course they cannot study and learn from it, since it is not on their class list, as that is the requirement to learn spells.

That's also why a sorcerer cannot learn Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer from a scroll or otherwise (altho that would be pretty cool for sure, even if it were only useable with Arcane Preparation), since it is not on the sorcerer class list, even though it is an arcane spell a wizard can learn!

Bye
Thanee

 

[sledged]

I thought what Liquidsabre was saying was, that you HAVE to scribe them in your spell book before you can even prepare them.

That's exactly what he's saying, and when you do prepare them you're limited to one slot for each spell level.

What I am stating is, you do not have to scribe them in your spell book to memorize them. You can cast them (1/level/day), just as the Spell Mastery feat allows you to cast spells w/o memorizing them from your spell book.

Shhh... don't say "memorize" or the 3E/3.5E police will arrest you. If that were the case, this feat would be a lot better than Spell Mastery. Even Spell Mastery requires you to have the spell in question scribed in your spellbook at the time you take the feat. In general, characters must prepare spells received from levels in wizard from spellbooks. This feat does not change that mechanic. If it did, it would say something to the effect that spells can be prepared without the aid of a spellbook in a similar manner that Spell Mastery does.

All this does is add the Domain spells to your class list, but NOT into your spell book. I think we all agree on this.

Absolutely.

If this is the exact quote from the feat, then it seems like it would allow you to scribe the spells into your spellbook. And if you can scribe them into your spellbook, why can't you prepare them more than once?

Because that's the limitation of the feat. It's the same reason why the spellcaster uses wisdom instead of instead of the normal ability score to determine whether or not the spell can be learned and to determine the save DC.

The way I am interpreting it is that you do not actually scribe the spells in your spell book. The feat adds them to your class spell list and allows you to prepare (w/o having to scribe them into your spell book) them, with the restriction of 1/day/level. And that is it.

Again, if the feat allowed a wizard to prepare the spell without having it scribed in her spellbook, it would have said so.

Now the reason I want to know if you can scribe them in your spell book is, because then you could prepare them more than once. If you can scribe them onto a scroll (and thus cast the spell more than 1/level/day), then it stands to reason you could scribe them into your spell book and prepare them more than 1/level/day.

Under normal circumstances you can prepare any spell scribed in your spellbook, as many times as you want provided you have slots available at the appropriate spell level or above. However, this feat explicitly states that domain spells are limited to one slot at each spell level, and yes, you can scribe it as many times as you want. The feat doesn't limit that. Of course the drawback is that you have to spend money and XP for each scrolled spell. However, if you don't mind that, scribe the hell out of 'em.

Nice way to completely misrepresent my statement by taking it out of context. That's HALF of what I was saying.

Whoa. Calm down. I didn't misinterprete it. Because of your statement's context, the reason why such a scenario couldn't take place was unclear: I merely added that comment for the sake of clearity. Just as Thanee made even further comment on your statement.

 

[Pax]

You probably know that yourself, but just to be sure... of course they cannot study and learn from it, since it is not on their class list, as that is the requirement to learn spells.

Sorcerors CAN learn arcane spells that are not on the Sorceror class list, a.k.a. "unusual arcane spells", if they have some "especial knowledge or familiarity" with it.

Let's 'em learn custom-to-the-BBEG spells they've seen the BBEG cast a dozen times before, and finally have a scroll of, with no fuss or muss.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Sorcerors CAN learn arcane spells that are not on the Sorceror class list, a.k.a. "unusual arcane spells", if they have some "especial knowledge or familiarity" with it.

But do you consider that to apply to, say, Bard spells?

Can the sorcerer watch the bard cast Fanfare a few times, then pick it up as a Spell Known?

-Hyp.

 

[Pax]

Watch a few times, no. Pay for some bardic tutors (paying about what it'd cost to research such a spell, and a good chunk of time besides), maybe - remember, that's still subject to GM discretion.

IMO, AD works because the deity in question enables it.

Bardic spells work, however, because the way bards approach magic is an independantly-viable method of accessing and directing the relevant power(s).

IOW, apples-and-oranges time. ^_^ I might allow a sorceror to lean CLW, especially in a party that was thin on healing, if he learned it from a Bard. But never from a Wizard or Sorceror with AD; if they want to use AD as a path to curing spells ... they can take the feat themselves.

 

[sledged]

Sorcerors CAN learn arcane spells that are not on the Sorceror class list, a.k.a. "unusual arcane spells", if they have some "especial knowledge or familiarity" with it.

I never paid attention to that feature, and after reading further, I found this:

These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list (page 192), or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study. For example, a sorcerer with a scroll or spellbook detailing an unusual sorcerer/wizard spell (one not on the sorcerer/wizard spell list in this book) could select that spell as one of his new spells for attaining a new level, provided that it is of the right spell level.

The example suggests that spells from sources outside the PHB (e.g. Player's Guide to Faerûn, Tome and Blood, Magic of Faerûn, etc...) must be learned in this manner, and even then he's still limited to sorcerer/wizard spells.

However, when I looked at the SRD, it didn't give any example, which sets no limitations on what "unusual spells" are (in fact it doesn't even say the spell has to be an arcane one). Since the passage from the PHB is just one example, I'm inclinded to go with any arcane spell the sorcerer has a chance to study is fair game. So the said hypothetical wizard with his arcane scroll of CLW could, in fact, hand it to a Sorceror (though still not another Wizard) from which to study and learn.

 

[Pax]

The example suggests that spells from sources outside the PHB (e.g. Player's Guide to Faerûn, Tome and Blood, Magic of Faerûn, etc...) must be learned in this manner, and even then he's still limited to sorcerer/wizard spells.

A lot of people make that assumption, but such is not the case. Those supplements, when in use, directly add to the Sor/Wiz list - they're (at least in the case of the FR spell lists - the PGFR or MaFR spells this out, in fact) considered common spells in their setting, just as with the PHB core list.