More WotC RPGA D&D content in Dungeon?

[Echohawk]

Wow. I never thought I'd actually miss the "Dungeon 134 and 135 have no FR or Eberron content" thread...

 

[takasi]

And, no, I'm not going to spend my time going through some of the RPGA adventures (especially Mark of Heroes) that I have access to and start picking out specific examples to satisfy you.

Then you haven't pointed out anything.

Q. ) What's the difference between this and that?

A.) I don't like this one.

Thanks for providing such an inciteful answer.

 

[BOZ]

Butch, who is "Dungeon 134 and 135 have no FR or Eberron content"?

Dungeon 134 and 135 have no FR or Eberron content's dead, baby, Dungeon 134 and 135 have no FR or Eberron content's dead.

 

[kenobi65]

This is a perfect example of why the D&D Campaign program should outreach to Dungeon magazine. If DMs can read a good adventure it might motivate them to try the RPGA out at a con, go to a gameday or sanction something at home.

It's no such example, in my case. Please don't put words in my mouth. I am already very involved in RPGA play. I have already chosen, for the reasons I stated above, to not even try Mark of Heroes (the fact that the RPGA can't seem to get their act together when it comes to effectively supporting the D&D Campaigns certainly doesn't help). Having a Mark of Heroes or Xen'drik adventure in Dragon won't do jack to change my mind on those campaigns.

That's absolutely false. Even the D&D Open was split up into 3 adventures. (Mr. Jacobs said that if they do it again it will be one adventure.) The average adventure length is over 25 pages after RPGA information is remove. Gambit at Dreadhold was as long as the average Dungeon adventure. I have no idea how you're drawing this conclusion if you've never read these adventures.

It is absolutely true, and I'm not talking about sheer page count. I've not read the MoH adventures, but they're 4-hour, one-round adventures, exactly the same as Living Greyhawk, Living Arcanis, etc. They're specifically written so that the vast majority of groups who play them can finish them in four hours or less. I've played in more than a few RPGA modules that we finished in under 3 hours.

RPGA modules typically have no more than 3 combat encounters (and very often only two), because you can't fit more than that into a four-hour time slot.

The D&D Open is 3 adventures, because it was a three-round module when it was run at GenCon Indy. I imagine that James said, if they do it again, they'd do it as a single adventure, because, at that point, it would probably be as long as a typical Dungeon adventure.

I'm pretty sure that you and your home group play Dungeon adventures, based on your prior posts to this board. How long does it take you and your group to play a Dungeon adventure? More than one gaming session? More than 4 hours? I don't know about your group, but playing a typical Dungeon adventure for our group is more like 8 to 10 hours (some are longer or shorter than others, but that's a pretty good estimate, based on playing a couple of dozen of them).

How is it any different than the standard contract for other submissions? Mr. Jacobs can call Mr. Richards or Mr. Radney-MacFarland or anyone at the RPGA and ask for a list of adventures and authors and go from there.

It's not different, but it is a step that has to be taken. I'm just trying to make sure that it's clear that the modules are not the RPGA's, to do with as they please, once they retire from official RPGA play.

Have they distributed them for the old Forgotten Realms campaigns?

By that, do you mean Living City and Legacy of the Green Regent? No, neither have ever been reprinted; they both likely face the same issues with republication rights that the other RPGA modules do. (Probably worse, in the case of Living City, in that they were likely written under the old RPGA contracts, which didn't let the rights revert to the authors.)

I'm very happy to hear that Paizo will possibly be working with the RPGA in the future to create original adventure modules for the D&D Campaigns.

Well, what you've heard is that Erik and James are open to the idea. Whether the RPGA has any interest in it is another question. (The fact that, something like three years later, they haven't done another "Mad God's Key" suggests to me that they might not be too interested.)

I'd also point out that RPGA management strongly believes that public play (conventions, game days at retail stores) is the best way to attract new players to D&D, and to the RPGA -- and that's the RPGA's biggest goal. I've talked with Ian Richards on this topic...they do offer support of home play because RPGA members have asked for it, but they are convinced that most home groups are insular and don't do much to recruit new players to the hobby.

This is why their programs are more supportive of conventions and game days, and why it's a royal pain in the you-know-what to join the RPGA in any other fashion besides attending an RPGA event. And, since I bet you that they feel that Dungeon adventures are primarily another way to support home play, they wouldn't feel that it's a particularly good way to attract new RPGA members.

 

[Jason Bulmahn]

Get Jason B. back at his desk and writing another Living Greyhawk adventure! He can't leave until he finishes it

Mike

Get in line behind everybody else who wants a piece of my writing time these days. That said, I would like to write another LG mod for Dungeon.

Jason Bulmahn
Managing Editor of Dragon

 

[takasi]

It's no such example, in my case. Please don't put words in my mouth. I am already very involved in RPGA play. I have already chosen, for the reasons I stated above, to not even try Mark of Heroes (the fact that the RPGA can't seem to get their act together when it comes to effectively supporting the D&D Campaigns certainly doesn't help). Having a Mark of Heroes or Xen'drik adventure in Dragon won't do jack to change my mind on those campaigns.

If it's a good adventure in Dungeon then it's a good adventure you wouldn't have seen otherwise, correct?

It is absolutely true, and I'm not talking about sheer page count. I've not read the MoH adventures, but they're 4-hour, one-round adventures, exactly the same as Living Greyhawk, Living Arcanis, etc. They're specifically written so that the vast majority of groups who play them can finish them in four hours or less. I've played in more than a few RPGA modules that we finished in under 3 hours.

The shorter duration is due to playstyle more than module design. Con PUGs usually don't roleplay as much, and DMs usually don't go into as much detail. Home games are much less formal and lead to more open ended play.

RPGA modules typically have no more than 3 combat encounters (and very often only two), because you can't fit more than that into a four-hour time slot.

Gambit at Dreadhold has 12 encounters in that adventure alone. The page/word count is also extremely important for comparison. How can you say it isn't?

The D&D Open is 3 adventures, because it was a three-round module when it was run at GenCon Indy. I imagine that James said, if they do it again, they'd do it as a single adventure, because, at that point, it would probably be as long as a typical Dungeon adventure.

It's still one module, regardless of how many rounds it takes. And there are many multiple round modules out there, as well as adventure arcs that could be combined if length is an issue, which it usually isn't for MoH.

I'm pretty sure that you and your home group play Dungeon adventures, based on your prior posts to this board. How long does it take you and your group to play a Dungeon adventure? More than one gaming session? More than 4 hours? I don't know about your group, but playing a typical Dungeon adventure for our group is more like 8 to 10 hours (some are longer or shorter than others, but that's a pretty good estimate, based on playing a couple of dozen of them).

Ours actually take longer, but we play the AP which is a little longer and more intense than a typical Dungeon adventure. However, it's all about the playstyle. As a con PUG I could DM the majority of Dungeon adventures within a 6 hour RPGA session.

This is why their programs are more supportive of conventions and game days, and why it's a royal pain in the you-know-what to join the RPGA in any other fashion besides attending an RPGA event. And, since I bet you that they feel that Dungeon adventures are primarily another way to support home play, they wouldn't feel that it's a particularly good way to attract new RPGA members.

I don't see why they should feel that way. It's advertising. I'm sure many people would play the adventure at home, but it would also raise awareness of the RPGA and increase traffic to their website.

 

[James Jacobs]

Get in line behind everybody else who wants a piece of my writing time these days. That said, I would like to write another LG mod for Dungeon.

Jason Bulmahn
Managing Editor of Dragon

And I would like to publish one!

 

[Erik Mona]

Thanks for providing such an inciteful answer.

This is actually funny given your posting style.

The word you're looking for is "insightful."

--Erik

 

[kenobi65]

If it's a good adventure in Dungeon then it's a good adventure you wouldn't have seen otherwise, correct?

It may well be a good adventure, but, you know what? I don't read the Eberron content in Dungeon or Dragon. Period. End of story. I wouldn't read it regardless.

The shorter duration is due to playstyle more than module design.

In part, but not entirely.

Gambit at Dreadhold has 12 encounters in that adventure alone.

How many of those twelve are combat encounters? Generally, it's the combat encounters that take longer. Roleplaying encounters, investigation encounters, etc. often do not take as long in play.

Let me give you an example of the difference I'm talking about. I've got Dungeon #135 in front of me. "Funeral Procession", which is a fairly normal-length Dungeon adventure (13 pages), looks to have roughly 10 combat encounters alone.

All I am saying is that the typical RPGA one-round module is probably substantially shorter, in actual play, than the typical Dungeon adventure. Mad God's Key, which, also, wasn't a particularly long module by Dungeon standards, but was the equivalent, in play time, of playing several "standard" Living Greyhawk modules.

It's still one module, regardless of how many rounds it takes.

No, actually, the D&D Open at GenCon is three separate rounds. You only get to play in Round 2 if you advance from Round 1 (i.e., are among the best-scoring tables). Same with Round 3.

And there are many multiple round modules out there, as well as adventure arcs that could be combined if length is an issue, which it usually isn't for MoH.

Actually, this is probably a better idea.

 

[takasi]

This is actually funny given your posting style.

The word you're looking for is "insightful."

--Erik

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week.