More WotC RPGA D&D content in Dungeon?

[D'karr]

I'm just trying to understand your logic for not even glancing at an Eberron adventure to mine it for ideas. Whether you like the backdrop or not, the adventures are still D&D and many (not all) of the maps, monsters, spells, and other crunch in an adventure have just as much potential to be used in a Greyhawk, FR or a homebrew game as any vanilla module does. Eberron DMs are expected to "adapt, to some degree", generic modules, whether they like the vanilla backdrop or not.

Generic appeals to the greatest majority. That is why Eberron and Forgotten Realms DMs "are expected to some degree" to adapt. A Generic adventure appeals to the greatest market. A Campaign specific adventure does not.

You just proved why it would be beneficial to see RPGA modules in Dungeon. Your laundry list of hurdles to getting these adventures shows how tough it is. A good module in Dungeon might help motivate some players. If not, at least the adventure gets a chance to have a wider audience; what's wrong with that?

No, to the contrary. He just stated the reasons why a published adventure in Dungeon does not necessarily work for RPGA play.

It is one thing to play a home game which has pretty much no restrictions and another to play in an RPGA sanctioned event which has X amount of restrictions.

If it was the other way around your example appeals to an even smaller group. Those that play Mark of Heroes (Eberron) in RPGA sanctioned play. Those two subsets are a miniscule minority when compared to the amount of people that don't play or like Eberron or play or like the RPGA. The number gets even smaller since most of those have already played or DMed said adventure.

 

[takasi]

Generic appeals to the greatest majority. That is why Eberron and Forgotten Realms DMs "are expected to some degree" to adapt. A Generic adventure appeals to the greatest market. A Campaign specific adventure does not.

If he will not even look at an adventure because he has to do some adaptation to make it work, then why should an Eberron DM want to use a generic adventure if by definition he has to adapt it to make it work in Eberron?

No, to the contrary. He just stated the reasons why a published adventure in Dungeon does not necessarily work for RPGA play.

No he didn't. Reread what he posted. He said why people don't like the RPGA; it's difficult to get the adventures. His list has nothing to do with why a published adventure in Dungeon doesn't work in the RPGA.

It is one thing to play a home game which has pretty much no restrictions and another to play in an RPGA sanctioned event which has X amount of restrictions.

You can sanction RPGA events for home play, so I don't follow your logic at all. I don't see how the difficulty of RPGA participation makes an RPGA adventure published in Dungeon any different than any other adventure published in Dungeon.

If it was the other way around your example appeals to an even smaller group. Those that play Mark of Heroes (Eberron) in RPGA sanctioned play. Those two subsets are a miniscule minority when compared to the amount of people that don't play or like Eberron or play or like the RPGA. The number gets even smaller since most of those have already played or DMed said adventure.

It's an adventure. You can play these adventures just like you could play a Dungeon adventure, with or without the RPGA. I don't see how the audience is segmented at all. In fact, I can run adventures and it would be nearly impossible for players to tell if it was an RPGA adventure or a Dungeon adventure. I've done this before in home play and they haven't noticed the difference! Some thought Queen with Burning Eyes was RPGA, and some thought In Cold Blood was from Dungeon.

 

[kenobi65]

I'm just trying to understand your logic for not even glancing at an Eberron adventure to mine it for ideas. Whether you like the backdrop or not, the adventures are still D&D and many (not all) of the maps, monsters, spells, and other crunch in an adventure have just as much potential to be used in a Greyhawk, FR or a homebrew game as any vanilla module does. Eberron DMs are expected to "adapt, to some degree", generic modules, whether they like the vanilla backdrop or not.

Because the subject matter itself is not, in my mind, a D&D adventure...it is an Eberrron adventure. I do not use Dungeon adventures to "mine them" for the little bits...I either run them, pretty much as-is, or I don't use them at all. For me, an Eberron adventure is on the same level as an Epic adventure...it's a "venue" that I don't run, that I don't have any interest in, and so I just don't use that adventure.

This, btw, obviously doesn't stop me from reading Dungeon. If I end up running, on average, something like one adventure out of each issue (and sometimes it's been 3, and sometimes it's been 0), then it's paid for itself for me.

Maybe for Living Greyhawk, but for the D&D Campaigns they seem to be a little more complicated. I just pulled out a random LotGR modules (In Cold Blood) I ran at a Gameday and it has eight separate encounters and two decent maps in 19 pages.

Actually, that LotGR module sounds like it's closer to the norm for an RPGA module (and, btw, my experience with the RPGA is with most of the campaigns except for LotGR and MoH. I've played and DMed Living Greyhawk, Living Force, Living Death, Living Arcanis, and Living Spycraft, as well as the now-ended Living City and Living Dragonstar).

Most RPGA modules typically have 5 to 8 "encounters"...not all of which are intended by the author to be combat encounters (which, typically, take more time). For example, many RPGA modules (and, for that matter, many non-RPGA modules) start out with the PCs being contacted by some sort of patron, who asks or hires them to do a job (i.e., the adventure). In many cases, that patron is statted out, and the meeting with the patron is Encounter 1 in the module. Does that mean that it's meant to be a combat encounter? Certainly not; the stats are likely provided in case the PC's actions somehow "go off the map." Another example is "information gathering" encounters; the stats are often provided for significant NPCs with whom the PCs are going to talk, but in most cases, those encounters occur without those stats ever coming into play.

Of the twelve statted encounters you mentioned earlier, in the MoH module, all of them could, "potentially", be combats...but how many are truly intended, by the author, to be resolved by combat?

The question is would they like to see RPGA modules in Dungeon? If they don't want to see them, what's the logic behind this? Saying "because they don't like the RPGA" is not a very rational response.

You seem to be very concerned with logic and reason. Even if they don't have (what you would consider to be) a logical, rational reason, it doesn't make their reasoning less valid for them. They may have tried to play in an RPGA event, and didn't enjoy it. They may have read about the RPGA's rules, and decided that it didn't sound like fun.

 

[takasi]

Because the subject matter itself is not, in my mind, a D&D adventure...it is an Eberrron adventure. I do not use Dungeon adventures to "mine them" for the little bits...I either run them, pretty much as-is, or I don't use them at all. For me, an Eberron adventure is on the same level as an Epic adventure...it's a "venue" that I don't run, that I don't have any interest in, and so I just don't use that adventure.

Eberron adventures are still D&D adventures, they're just set in a different backdrop. They have just as much variety as any other settings. It's just as easy to use the Adaptation sidebars and run the adventure as if it were generic as it is to run a generic adventure "pretty much" as-is. The amount of "work" is incredibly small, but if you haven't read any of the adventures you wouldn't know this would you?

Does that mean that it's meant to be a combat encounter?

The same can be said about Dungeon adventures. I just grabbed a random adventure, Blood of Malar. It's only 15 pages long. There are about 10 encounters statted out, but only 4 are most likely to end up as combat encounters.

For Gambit at Dreadhold, at least half are likely to end up as combat encounters, but you could easily have more. As someone else pointed out, it's difficult to finish this adventure in one session if your players try to tackle everything. Not every adventure has to finish in the time allotted, that's why the questionaires ask how far the adventurers got! If they were clever and avoided some encounters it would be OK, but if you want to run through the whole thing and had enough time you could; there's nothing "wrong" with that.

You seem to be very concerned with logic and reason. Even if they don't have (what you would consider to be) a logical, rational reason, it doesn't make their reasoning less valid for them. They may have tried to play in an RPGA event, and didn't enjoy it. They may have read about the RPGA's rules, and decided that it didn't sound like fun.

Reading the rules and having an adventure are completely different. Even if they still don't want to join the RPGA, at least they have an adventure they can run. And there may be a few people who wouldn't have joined the RPGA (or even know what it was) if it weren't for that adventure.

 

[smilinggm]

If he will not even look at an adventure because he has to do some adaptation to make it work, then why should an Eberron DM want to use a generic adventure if by definition he has to adapt it to make it work in Eberron?

No he didn't. Reread what he posted. He said why people don't like the RPGA; it's difficult to get the adventures. His list has nothing to do with why a published adventure in Dungeon doesn't work in the RPGA.

You can sanction RPGA events for home play, so I don't follow your logic at all. I don't see how the difficulty of RPGA participation makes an RPGA adventure published in Dungeon any different than any other adventure published in Dungeon.

It's an adventure. You can play these adventures just like you could play a Dungeon adventure, with or without the RPGA. I don't see how the audience is segmented at all. In fact, I can run adventures and it would be nearly impossible for players to tell if it was an RPGA adventure or a Dungeon adventure. I've done this before in home play and they haven't noticed the difference! Some thought Queen with Burning Eyes was RPGA, and some thought In Cold Blood was from Dungeon.

Takasi

In my post I was giving you 1 reason (and perhaps the largest reason) why Mark of Heroes is not "everyones' cup of tea". Simply stated The RGPA is not for everyone. Nor does it have to be. The RPGA does not fit everyones play style. Nor does it have to. There are many reasons why people do not like the RGPA. Maby they had a bad experience, Maby they prefer only home brew settings and play. It does not matter why they do not like the RPGA. This is their choice. Thier decision to join or not to join the RPGA does not have to be rational. It is their choice. D&D is a game and if they do not enjoy some part of the game, then so be it. There are Lots of options and variations for them to choose from.

I will now give you other reasons why Eberron ie Mark of Heroes is not everyone's "cup of tea"

a) Eberron has too much technology or pseudo-technology.
Lightning-Rails, A city of Huge Muliti-Story Buildings, AirShips, WarForged.
b) Too much magic.
Everburning Torches on every corner, Large Magic shops in major cities.
c) Psionics Eberron supports psionic PC's and NPC's. And even Psionic Robots.
d) The Elves of Eberron are Very screwed up
e) The Artificer is broken.
f) In order to play Mark of Heroes at least 1 person in the group has to have Internet Access.
g) RPGA style modules limit choices and can very easly feal railroaded.
h) There are very specific play restrictions
Treaasure caps
Certain Spells are banned
Certain Magic Items are banned
i) It is not MY homebrew setting!

Now that you have change the title of this thread. ( IMHO just to get around my very valid argument that if you want more RPGA content in Dragon, Dragon would have to print mods for all of the RPGA campaings not just Eberron mods.) I think that you have gotten what this thread is asking for. Every module in Dragon has been for some time RPGA play enabled. Modules puplished in Dungeon are 100% Offical Dungeons and Dragon content. So Every module published in Dragon is an Official RPGA module. You have won!

 

[takasi]

In my post I was giving you 1 reason (and perhaps the largest reason) why Mark of Heroes is not "everyones' cup of tea". Simply stated The RGPA is not for everyone. Nor does it have to be. The RPGA does not fit everyones play style.

I'll ask again: what does this have to do with creating a good Dungeon adventure?

Even if you don't like the RPGA as an organization (for the reasons you described) if it fits the style of Dungeon then what's the problem? How does someone's attitude towards playing in the RPGA have anything to do with putting RPGA adventures in Dungeon?

a) Eberron has too much technology or pseudo-technology.
Lightning-Rails, A city of Huge Muliti-Story Buildings, AirShips, WarForged.

Areas of Eberron do, but most of them are at the same level as Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms.

b) Too much magic.
Everburning Torches on every corner, Large Magic shops in major cities.

There are not everburning torches in every corner, and there are large magic shops in every major city of standard D&D worlds according to the DMG.

c) Psionics Eberron supports psionic PC's and NPC's. And even Psionic Robots.

Psionics are not, by default, in Mark of Heroes adventures. Even to play with psionics you need campaign cards. As far as the overall setting, psionics is extremely rare in Eberron.

d) The Elves of Eberron are Very screwed up

I don't know what this means at all. There are urban elves just like in every other settings, there are wild elves and there are militant elves. There is also a new type of death worshipping elven society (Aerenal), but it is foreign and rare. There is actually more elven variety in FR than in Eberron, as there are very, very few subraces in Eberron.

e) The Artificer is broken.

So are other classes in other settings.

f) In order to play Mark of Heroes at least 1 person in the group has to have Internet Access.

If it were in Dungeon this wouldn't be the case. You can also get a Mark of Heroes adventure through a retailer kit, but they are much harder to find. I don't see what this has to do with Eberron, (and why internet access is so hard to find, but don't even argue with that point because it's moot).

g) RPGA style modules limit choices and can very easly feal railroaded.

No they don't. The guidelines say to avoid railroading players, and there is a wide variety. As kenobi pointed out, there is a variety of encounters and you have a choice of how to play them out. However, all written modules assume some railroading, as Dungeon editors have said in the past. It applies to Dungeon as much as it applies to the RPGA.

h) There are very specific play restrictions
Treaasure caps
Certain Spells are banned
Certain Magic Items are banned

Again, this has nothing to do with publishing an adventure in Dungeon.

Now that you have change the title of this thread. ( IMHO just to get around my very valid argument that if you want more RPGA content in Dragon, Dragon would have to print mods for all of the RPGA campaings not just Eberron mods.)

It isn't a valid argument. Dungeon and Dragon do not have to do that.

I think that you have gotten what this thread is asking for. Every module in Dragon has been for some time RPGA play enabled. Modules puplished in Dungeon are 100% Offical Dungeons and Dragon content. So Every module published in Dragon is an Official RPGA module. You have won!

I think you mean Dungeon right?

They aren't official D&D Campaign RPGA modules. They only count for partial reward points, and you can't use them to gain xp on official characters.

And the original post showed that there are missed opportunities to find adventures that match backdrops. Even if an adventure can no longer be used in the RPGA, it's still a good adventure that could complement other material.

 

[smilinggm]

They aren't official D&D Campaign RPGA modules. They only count for partial reward points, and you can't use them to gain xp on official characters.

And the original post showed that there are missed opportunities to find adventures that match backdrops. Even if an adventure can no longer be used in the RPGA, it's still a good adventure that could complement other material.

So to be clear what you want is for Dungoen magazine to publish Official Mark of Hero's (ie Eberron) Adventures. Yes.

Not going to happen.
No matter how much you beg and plead and cry.

Will Dungoen print more Eberron mods that are RPGA enabled. Yes they will.
You will still not be able to use you Mark of Hero's PC in the mod as you have stated.

If you want to spread your love for Eberron throug the RPGA this is not the way to do it. Your arguing and griping is having a negagive effect on people. The way you do it is by Running Mark of Hero's, DM's Mark and XinDrik Modules at game days, and conventions. Provide a good game for your players and they will come back. Become active in your local gaming clubs and run RPGA Eberron for your clubs. Just reading a mod is not enough. They have to play it. Running a game day is not that hard and is a lot of fun. Running a convention is harder but also fun. Start a Play by Post Eberron game. Show people how good Eberron can be by actions not words.

 

[takasi]

So to be clear what you want is for Dungoen magazine to publish Official Mark of Hero's (ie Eberron) Adventures. Yes.

Or Living Greyhawk. Or Xen'drik Expeditions. Or whatever other D&D campaign they might plan in the future (Ravenloft, Rich Burlew's setting, etc).

Even if they don't republish, maybe they could publish something new.

At the very least, they should read these adventures (or listen to those who have read/run/played them), and if they're good solicit to the authors to create more for Dungeon.

If you want to spread your love for Eberron throug the RPGA this is not the way to do it. Your arguing and griping is having a negagive effect on people. The way you do it is by Running Mark of Hero's, DM's Mark and XinDrik Modules at game days, and conventions. Provide a good game for your players and they will come back. Become active in your local gaming clubs and run RPGA Eberron for your clubs. Just reading a mod is not enough. They have to play it. Running a game day is not that hard and is a lot of fun. Running a convention is harder but also fun. Start a Play by Post Eberron game. Show people how good Eberron can be by actions not words.

I go to cons, run gamedays and contribute amateur material. Please don't criticize me as a person and ignore what I'm saying. The argument presented about people not liking the RPGA was countered, as were the points against Eberron.

 

[smilinggm]

Or Living Greyhawk. Or Xen'drik Expeditions. Or whatever other D&D campaign they might plan in the future (Ravenloft, Rich Burlew's setting, etc).

Even if they don't republish, maybe they could publish something new.

At the very least, they should read these adventures (or listen to those who have read/run/played them), and if they're good solicit to the authors to create more for Dungeon.

I go to cons, run gamedays and contribute amateur material. Please don't criticize me as a person and ignore what I'm saying. The argument presented about people not liking the RPGA was countered, as were the points against Eberron.

No criticizim intended. I am just trying to show you the path to grow Eberron. My points in all counts is that everyone likes something different. Not everyone likes The RPGA and not everyone likes Eberron. Reguardless of how you defend your position this fact has not changed. Dungeon and Dragon magizne will not be able to fufill your request. They are not the best venu for what you are looking for. They cater to a larger audience and have to look at the demands of large groups of people, not focused markets. Perhaps it would be better to ask that Polyhedron Magazinewas to be resurected. Polyhedron was the RPGA magazine. I would love to see Polyhedron rise from the ashes again. Polyhedron would be a perfect venue for your request.

 

[takasi]

Polyhedron would be a perfect venue for your request.

I still don't think you understand the request.

I'm asking for Paizo to be more aware of the only other people who publish D&D adventures for WotC's settings.

People may like different things, but RPGA adventures and Dungeon adventures are not very different at all. Getting into the RPGA is different than just running a Dungeon adventure, as you pointed out, but that has nothing to do with the differences between Dungeon adventures and RPGA adventures. Dungeon is the venue for adventures that fit their style, so if some RPGA adventures fit that style then what are you basing your statement on?