Most common cause of PC deaths

[Herremann the Wise]

Directly: hit point loss.
Generally: stupidity.

Spoken like a true 'ha ha' DM.

Actually, I'd say it's spoken like a true DM, period. Most DMs, including myself, don't go out of their way to kill PCs. I do my best not to kill them but, more often than not, they do something stupid (like try to run past a large creature even though they KNOW he has reach and they're low on HP) and die.

Sorry, but you're flat-out wrong; it's simple ignorance of (and arrogance generated by) one's position as DM. If you're holding all the cards and sit on high, everything your PCs do may well look stupid to you. Come down from your mountain for five minutes and realize that.

My my. I think you have way over-generalised and over-implied here. Is it not plain that reveal said that he does his best not to kill PCs? At which point did he say that everything his PCs did was stupid? To then ask him to come down from his mountain was personal and bad form.

I do, however, acknowledge that good players make bad choices, but that's not what I'm talking about here. I've seen way too many DMs with low self-esteem and scores to settle with the real world take it out on their players, laughing at them outright when they walk into the DM's 'I'll make them all pay for my miserable life' TPK scenario. Of course, they later play it off like the PCs had a chance to begin with and put it all down to player 'stupidity,' which is the kind of which ruins this game for a lot of people.

I'm sorry that you have had such experiences. I gather not everyone's cut out for the DM hat.

I never hesitate to take these guys to task for such power-DMing crap. I've even usurped many of their games for doing so, taking every last player with me as a result. You should see their faces when they realize their little world has crumbled beneath their feet.

I think this quote pretty much speaks for itself.

To elucidate further so people don't make the same incorrect assumptions as you:

By stupidity causing PC death - not a general reflection on the entire character or player may I emphasise - I am talking about a poor choice or series of choices that lead to a PC death when by rights, the death should not or would not have happened. Sometimes these poor decisions are mistakes by the player or players, other times they are the players roleplaying their characters correctly - charging in or separating themselves or heroically and single-handedly taking on an opponent who is too tough.

Speaking from experience with my own group - 6 DMs and 1 player - we have only ever had a single TPK but numerous single or double deaths. In pretty much all of these cases, we agreed that the tactics were poor, leading to a chance where death was not only possible but likely. In the TPK, we should have known we were outgunned but kept plugging away because the luck had gone all our way that session. As the party was separated neatly in two by the opposing force, we should have ran earlier. We as a group did not.

And as for you inferring that I'm a "ha ha" DM. Again you are incorrect. I pull no punches and let the dice lay where they lie but aside from that, I make sure my players enjoy themselves first and foremost. Consistency rather than rabid aggression is what I aspire to.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[jeffh]

I can't remember them all, but it seems to me failed save-or-dies narrowly edge out HP loss, summing over all the games I've run since switching to 3E. It's close, though.

Nearly had one from ability damage last session, which would have been a first. Mummy rot sucks when you're only 4th level or something. But a close reading of a spell description (Bonds of Mercy from Monte's Book of Hallowed Might) means there's hope for that character yet.

Negative levels have never been a serious factor and I'm not surprised that no-one has voted for them so far. Of course, in one of my current games they don't even exist, so to some extent we've got a biased sample there, but they did occasionally happen in my other games and may be a factor as early as next session in my other current game (the adventure is called "Whispers of the" WHAT'S "Blade" again)?

 

[Hussar]

As far as negative levels go, I've actually done it once. Three spectres, fly by attack and the third level of a tower makes for a nasty little combat. Being able to use fly by attack and fly through walls made life very difficult for the party. But, that's the only one I can think of.

On the point that players should learn to run away, I heartily concur. This is probably the primary cause of all the party deaths I've seen other than the save or die stuff. If you are fighting something, and it's chewing your arm off, LEAVE! Better part of valour and all that. Time and time again, I see parties that will fight to the bitter end. This is just silly. There's nothing wrong with grabbing your fallen and bugging out. That's what caltrops and tanglefoot bags are for! Come back later when you are better prepared.

Then again, I've seen the odd DM that won't let parties run away too. Everything chases, no matter what and running becomes suicide, so you might as well stay. But, that's a different issue anyway.

 

[Endovior]

Hmm. Hit Point Damage. Frequently at Level 1, and all at once. For instance:

We should have camped further away from the Kobold Fortress; a mile is much too close. Also, we shouldn't have lit a fire... or, at least, have informed the DM that we did not, in fact, light a fire when he said, "Okay, so you're all gathered around a fire" and started rolling dice (despite the fact that nobody actually said that they lit a fire). Also, I should have run once the other party members were all slain in the first round, and not tried to surrender.

I shouldn't have taken the Diehard feat. When our Level 1 party encountered those three dozen Bugbear Fighters, everyone else got knocked out and stabilized at negative HP, except for the other Paladin, who fought them off with a stupendous sequence of natural 20s. My Paladin, on the other hand, fought to the last, and fell after slaying five of them.

 

[jeff37923]

Stupidity kills.

Here's an example. First level party is out searching for a bandit camp near the crossroads of a few villages. During the wilderness search they see a black dragon in flight, carrying a cow in its talons, land on a rock outcropping a few hundred yards away. The dragon doesn't spot the characters and begins to gruesomely eat the cow while the party watches. Much detail was given to how the dragon "played" with its food in a very sadistic manner, occassionally drooling acid on it just to hear the cow scream and tearing it apart with ease. After this scene, I made a point of saying that it appeared that the dragon laired nearby and perhaps they could go after it when they had progressed beyond first level and gotten some magic items, that it was too strong for them and they were lucky it hadn't noticed the party. Instead, the party attempted a full frontal assault on this thing while it was picking its teeth with a cow rib, including a suicidal charge across 120' of open ground at it. The black dragon killed them dead, all five of them. None of them tried to run away or retreat during the fight, they kept attacking until killed.

TPK - The party demonstrated that they were too stupid to live. No self-preservation instinct.

(Yes, I know, I just reposted this from another thread. I am too lazy to write about other Darwinian moments right now. Sue me.)

 

[Infernal Teddy]

I voted "Other" -> Player stupidity...

 

[lotuseater]

I voted "Other" -> Player stupidity...

i voted other as well. gm stupidity.

 

[Asmo]

Another vote for stupidity( both player and dm ) : never fight a Roper when you´re 4 lvl

Asmo

 

[DragonLancer]

I went for hit points, but also chalk me up with a vote for stupidity.

 

[The_Gneech]

The phrase "I think we can handle one more room before resting" has caused more anguish in my games than anything else.

As for the specific thing that causes characters to bite dirt, it's Con drain every time.

-The Gneech