D&D 4E Most Wanted 4E Rules Revelations

[an_idol_mind]

I want to know what races and classes will be in the first Player's Handbook. That will be a huge factor in my decision to either convert to 4e or skip an edition.

 

[Nikosandros]

I'm very curious to know what they are doing with multi class characters.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

This got a least sort of an answer already. It was said that magic items will still be things your characters want and will still be a benefit and part of your character, they just won't be mandatory anymore.

If that's true, the designers are remarkably naive.

If there's still a magic sword that gives a fighter +1 to hit and +1 to damage, you will want it.

Same for shields, armor, gloves of ogre power, all the usual stuff.

I think the key from everything I've read is that the math is fixed so that the base AC of the enemies is not based on a average level party with average equipment but instead based on an average party with no equipment.

So we change the assumption from "difficulty based on a party with magic equipment" to "difficulty based on a party without magic equipment."

Therefore, a fighter might need an 11 or higher to hit without a magic weapon or a 8 or higher to hit with a +3 weapon. But they wouldn't run into a situation where they need a natural 20 without a magic weapon and a stat enhancer like happened in 3rd Ed.

So again... Assuming that magic items still offer some tangible, mechanical (+1, +2, +3 etc.) benefit, then any given encounter is easier if you have magic items.

Which means that instead of a situation where DMs must give out magic items in order for the party to remain competitive, now DMs will be afraid to give out magic items.

If characters without magic items are somehow able to stay exactly on parity with those with magic items... well then there's nothing particularly interesting about having magic items anymore.

I maintain that this is a HUGE HUUUUUUUUUGE departure from the heart of D&D.

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

Id like to know everything.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

If there's still a magic sword that gives a fighter +1 to hit and +1 to damage, you will want it.

Well, at least one designer specifically said that people will still WANT magic items. I don't think it would be D&D without magic items that I wanted to get for my character.

So we change the assumption from "difficulty based on a party with magic equipment" to "difficulty based on a party without magic equipment."

Not entirely. We still assume people have magic equipment. I'm just assuming that the average piece of equipment will more closely resemble ones from the Magic Item Compendium than the ones in the 3e DMG.

If they remove all stat enhancers and leave +1 through +5 weapons as the only mechanical benefit on hit and damage from magic items, then I know a lot of people won't even bother spending their money on magic weapons(unless they are really cheap or easy to get). I know most players I know(me included) would much prefer cool things like the Belt of Battle, Bracers of Quickstrike, rather than a +1 sword.

So again... Assuming that magic items still offer some tangible, mechanical (+1, +2, +3 etc.) benefit, then any given encounter is easier if you have magic items.

Which means that instead of a situation where DMs must give out magic items in order for the party to remain competitive, now DMs will be afraid to give out magic items.

Afraid? Why? They don't want their PCs to defeat the enemies? I know that's pretty much my goal when I create an encounter, to make an encounter the PCs can defeat but with some challenge.

If one PC has a +2 sword and is using maneuvers that add 6d6 damage to their attacks and they start off with a 50% chance to hit without the weapon, then the +2 damage is basically useless. The +2 to hit is minorly beneficial but not overpowering. I don't think I'd be afraid to allow a PC this small benefit. Especially if it was only one PC who had it.

I maintain that this is a HUGE HUUUUUUUUUGE departure from the heart of D&D.

I'm not so sure about that. In 1st Ed and 2nd Ed, there was no assumption of magic items. There were no guidelines for how much wealth characters should have at different levels.

I played a 12th level game where I had 2 +5 weapons that I was duel wielding in 2nd Ed. Meanwhile other party members had +2 weapons. Our DM was never paranoid or afraid to give us new items. It meant we were a little better, but he'd just use harder enemies against us.

I played another game where we were 8th level and had nearly no magic items at all.

It sounds like you can do the same sort of thing in 4E as you could in 1e, just use higher XP monsters or higher level monsters against the party if they have a couple more magic items that make them better at combat.

 

[Gundark]

So again... Assuming that magic items still offer some tangible, mechanical (+1, +2, +3 etc.) benefit, then any given encounter is easier if you have magic items.

Which means that instead of a situation where DMs must give out magic items in order for the party to remain competitive, now DMs will be afraid to give out magic items.

If characters without magic items are somehow able to stay exactly on parity with those with magic items... well then there's nothing particularly interesting about having magic items anymore.

For this reason I don't think that Magic items are going to be like they have in the past (+1, +2, +3, etc). I think magic items will provide a benifit, just not to hit and damage rolls.

If the system is designed to work without magic, then adding magic items with the "plusses" IMHO quickly overbalance the game.

It's like true20. a DM would have to be careful what item he introduced to the game

Also I would argue this kind of thing is a departure from 3e D&D, and not so much from earlier editions which where significantly less magic dependent

 

[Mercule]

My two top interests aren't listed: Skills and Martial Power abilities (fighter "spells").

Multi-classing is pretty high up, too. And, I'm just plain curious about (non) iterative attacks and how that'll all be balanced.

 

[Goken100]

This got a least sort of an answer already. It was said that magic items will still be things your characters want and will still be a benefit and part of your character, they just won't be mandatory anymore.

One of the designers said they were making magic items in such a way that if your party got an item and you let another party member use it your character wouldn't be somehow diminished by not having that item. You'd still be able to fight in the next encounter and not lose.

One of the playtest article talks about how the enemies were carrying around gold and loot and the party looted it.

I think the key from everything I've read is that the math is fixed so that the base AC of the enemies is not based on a average level party with average equipment but instead based on an average party with no equipment. Therefore, a fighter might need an 11 or higher to hit without a magic weapon or a 8 or higher to hit with a +3 weapon. But they wouldn't run into a situation where they need a natural 20 without a magic weapon and a stat enhancer like happened in 3rd Ed.

To me the major problem with magic items in 3rd AND 2nd Edition is that all these monsters had rediculous loots attached to them that were chok-a-blok with magic items. If the game is redesigned so that magic items are actually important and rare, that would do a lot to reduce the X-Mas tree effect.

I can't imagine them going that route though, since people love their treasure so much. Then again, it's tough to imagine no more +1 Maces lying everywhere. Well, we know they've gotta do something, cause the walking arsenal is not a fun character. >_<

 

[Goken100]

Okay, so if I do a revised list in a couple weeks, I'll take out the losers and any topics that happen to be revealed between now and then. I'll also add:

1. Alignment
2. Skills
3. Level progression power scale
4. Magic Items and other treasure
5. Martial Power abilities

Anything else?

 

[danbuter1]

I'm most interested in the changes to spellcasting, though several other things were also on my list.