MotW: Forsaker

[Victim]

It might be fair to the Forsaker destroy magic items and then save up the effective value.

While the Forsaker is going be destroying a few items, he's also not going to sucking up spell slots, requesting items, and taking too big a share of magical treasure. Compared to the effective loss of a round of buff spells and a share of magic treasure, A forsaker will probably end up being pretty low maintenance compared to a normal fighter. After considering the effective costs of all fighter's gear, and the haste, bull's strength, healing etc, he probably has a pretty significant effective cost per adventure as well.

 

[Crothian]

It might be fair to the Forsaker destroy magic items and then save up the effective value.

While the Forsaker is going be destroying a few items, he's also not going to sucking up spell slots, requesting items, and taking too big a share of magical treasure. Compared to the effective loss of a round of buff spells and a share of magic treasure, A forsaker will probably end up being pretty low maintenance compared to a normal fighter. After considering the effective costs of all fighter's gear, and the haste, bull's strength, healing etc, he probably has a pretty significant effective cost per adventure as well.

That is one of the reasons I like the class so much. I'm really starting to dislike the need for everyone to have all this magical itesm and all these self improving spells. I think it detracts from the role playing.

I do like the idea of the Forsaker being abole to destroy a really powerful item and that filling the requirement for a while. I think as his levels increase, the more he could destroy ahead of time should also increase.

 

[Marshall]

The +1 stat increase every level, the spell resistance, the improved saves, and the rapid healing seem to be more than minor abilities to me. The DR, while very useful, is only really necessary when you are fighting creatures with DR, so that you can actually damage them.

Most of his abilities just make up for the missing magic items.
Fast Healing is a weak version of Cure X Wounds especially with the really low Hp caps.
The Stat increases are nice and might make up for the lack of +x armor or weapons. But over the life of the PrC it amounts to a +3 weapon and +2 armor.
SR is cool and probably the best of the abilities. But it does cap out at 20.
CON to AC is way cool, and coupled to a MNK or Duelist could be nasty.
DR is several times better than a BRB, available earlier, and grows faster. When coupled with Natural Weapons it beats out a MNK Ki Strike by leaps and bounds. Course finding all those MI to destroy to keep it up will be really difficult, if not impossible. Not to mention working against the goals of the other PCs

That being said, I don't really like the fact that the DR has to be powered by destroying magic items every day either. It means that Forsaker is going to want to keep a few thousand gp worth of magic items available to destroy (in case he get's jumped by a creature with DR, or needs DR himself), instead of destroying them as he finds them, as he would supposedly desire to.

It seems to almost force you to go against the class concept if you want to be useful.

Maybe change it to a per week or per month restriction, or some kind of 'Cleansing Ritual'

 

[Chris Coulter]

CON to AC is way cool, and coupled to a MNK or Duelist could be nasty

I'm a CON wh**e. I look at this class and think "Put all of the stat boosts into CON and by 13 char level, when you finish the 10 levels of Forsaker, you can have a CON of (18 base + 3 from char. levels + 10 Forsaker) = 31 as a human with 2 more by 20th lvl. That's a +10 modifier at 13th, so assuming you took those levels as a Barb, you end up with 143-286 Hit point range (average 214.5) at 13th level. Life ain't so bad with that many HP.

Throw the +10 on to AC that I had forgotten in this scenario, and you get a handful of angry meat that could hold up quite well I think.

You could finish the non-epic levels with 300-520 HP (average 420).

Dragons would tell their hatchlings stories about you to get them to go to bed on time.....

 

[Archer]

I agree that the Forsaker is very low maintainence. All treasure is essentially used to buy more magic in the long run. With a half share of treasure the Forsaker would have plenty of money to have the best equipment possible and enough magic to destroy especially if he is allowed to have a declining balance of value. I'm sure everyone has come across powerful evil items that the party can't use because the DM designed it that way. Trash one unholy whatever with that power that causes 1d6 hp of damage per hit to the wielder and with a declining balance the forsaker would be fine for a few weeks and the party wouldn't be out any useful treasure.

I wonder if his mount is allowed to use magic items. Hmmm...

I forgot about the Con bonus to AC when I said the Forsaker couldn't compete. With Admanantine weapons and armor he does okay at all but the highest levels.

PS: Forsaker SR and Drow SR do not stack for those people envisioning 40+ SR for their character.

 

[Orco42]

They really don't nead the DR that much.

They can still get through some DR with no problem.

Thank god for adamantine weapons!

 

[MeanGenes]

I think this PrC is pretty well balanced if coupled with a normal melee class. I think it's just ugly when you combine it with a 13+ level monk. A monk13/forsaken2 has a SR of 35! And throw in immunity to poison and disease, wholeness of body, ki strike, etc. And since the monk relies on more stats than any other class, the inherent stat bonuses of the forsaken is very nice. The big minuses for forsaken is that they will be unable to benefit from healing/curing spells. But the monk has enough special abilities that it pretty much overcomes almost all the forsaken penalties.

 

[The Cardinal]

hmmm... I *need* this book...

let me think...
...dwarven Barbarian (Str18, Con 20)
Con+3 (I like to keep one ability raise to help one ability over a "threshold", i.e. from 13 to 14, from 15 to 16, from 11 to 12, etc... - another ability raise goes into Str)
Con+9 (Forsaker)
Str+1 (Forsaker)
= Str20 (24 when enraged) [+5; +7], Con 32 [+11]

10 levels Forsaker (avg. 65)
1st level Barbarian (12)
7 levels Barbarian (avg. 45.5)
2 levels Fighter (for the Feats; avg. 11)
+ 20*11 (=220)
= 353.5 hp on average...(max.=456 hp)

now add an adamantine fullplate (AC+11)
or breastplate and large shield (AC+9)
(and don't forget to give him an adamantine greatsword or bastard sword)
and you're in business...
(final AC, with Dex16, should be 33....hmmm....maybe the best choice for this would be a hobgoblin: dex+2, con+2 *and* ECL+0)

 

[Orco42]

hmmm... I *need* this book...

let me think...
...dwarven Barbarian (Str18, Con 20)
Con+3 (I like to keep one ability raise to help one ability over a "threshold", i.e. from 13 to 14, from 15 to 16, from 11 to 12, etc... - another ability raise goes into Str)
Con+9 (Forsaker)
Str+1 (Forsaker)
= Str20 (24 when enraged) [+5; +7], Con 32 [+11]

10 levels Forsaker (avg. 65)
1st level Barbarian (12)
7 levels Barbarian (avg. 45.5)
2 levels Fighter (for the Feats; avg. 11)
+ 20*11 (=220)
= 353.5 hp on average...(max.=456 hp)

Your missing one att. point from level 20 also take a Manual of Health before you become a Forsaker and that will give you a 34 con so you can add another 20hp.

Take as many Dwarf, Dragon, Giants toughness as you can.

Level 1 Fighter Feat Dwarf +6hp
Level 2 Fighter Feat Dwarf +6hp
Level 9 Giant +9hp
Level 12 Dragon +12hp
Level 15 Dragon +12hp
Level 18 Dragon +12hp

(You take one level of Barb, then 2 fighter then back to barb).

You would then have 430.5 hp on average and 533 hp max.

Edit- Slight error with fighter bonus feats.

 

[Crothian]

I think this PrC is pretty well balanced if coupled with a normal melee class. I think it's just ugly when you combine it with a 13+ level monk. A monk13/forsaken2 has a SR of 35! And throw in immunity to poison and disease, wholeness of body, ki strike, etc. And since the monk relies on more stats than any other class, the inherent stat bonuses of the forsaken is very nice. The big minuses for forsaken is that they will be unable to benefit from healing/curing spells. But the monk has enough special abilities that it pretty much overcomes almost all the forsaken penalties.

2 problems with this, first the SR wouldn't stack and secondly all th e Monk's abilities that are considered supernatural the Forsaken cannot use. Supernatural is magical.