Agamon said:
Emphasis mine. The 4E board at Paizo is a haven of negativity. It's really quite sad, and I'm not at all surprised that this originated there.
Nothing stopping me from going over there (other than maturity), stating that I'm a playtester and that I nor any of my group received this email. And hey, I wrote it on the internet, it must be true.
(This is an observation regarding 4e forum activity - it's not a commentary on specific posts on either the Paizo or ENWorld boards. I'm not directing the following solely at Agamon or wish to single him, or anyone else, out. But his post, in taking a shot at Paizo's forums, struck a chord with me where some regular posters to these boards seem to think it's the same environment here it was a year ago. They seem oblivious to the fact that they engage in the same type of behavior they're decrying. So here goes.)
Well, that's one way to look at it. There are certainly rabid anti- and pro-4e posters on those boards. There are also a large number of D&D fans who are passionate about the game and wish to discuss 4e - what they view as the good, bad, or unknown. Most of the time, debate continues without devolving into flamewars and trolling...
...unlike here.
Prior to the 4e-announcement, you could pretty much come here, share opinions, and bounce ideas around. People might offer a differing viewpoint, sometimes flat-out disagreement, but usually it didn't involve personal attacks.
Candidly, I was shocked at the rate at which personal attacks (from either the pro- or anti-4e camps) become commonplace here. In the last two months or so, from what I can see, these personal attacks haven't decreased so much as those with opinions out of line with the pro-4e crowd are posting less in this forum. Within the last couple of weeks, I've noticed a lot of people seem to be patting themselves on the back with how much more open-minded they are than "those anti-4e naysayers".
Years ago, when I discovered ENWorld, I dropped RPG.net like a bad habit precisely b/c at RPG.net, he with the quickest snark or loudest personal attack drowned out the discussion. ENWorld was different. It was an environment where people were more civil, ideas about RPGs were freely exchanged, and it felt like a true community where everyone more or less played by rules of civility. I was floored - it was the Internet after all.
It's not that way anymore - and it's the fault of both pro- and anti-4e fans alike. It's the fault of those who believe WotC is as corrupt as a Shadowrun megacorp as well as those who believe WotC can do no wrong and is as pure as the driven snow. WotC MAY release a 4e that's better than all prior versions of D&D. WotC COULD develop a game that is not as good as 3.x. Having blind faith in either of those opinions while discounting the opposing possibility is being close-minded.
I'm not saying the Paizo boards are free from this problem or are what ENWorld's boards once were. I am saying that most of the time, debate about 4e still continues to occur - be it mechanics, fluff, PR-blunders/victories - the GAME is still being discussed and often without the personal attacks so prevalent here. And while it seems to be in vogue to decry the Paizo forum regulars as spiteful grognards, there are plenty of pro-4e posters on those boards as well. Before taking a shot at Paizo's fans (after all, most of them probably frequent these boards also), may I suggest taking a look in the mirror. Cue up "Glass houses and stones".
So congratulate yourself on your self-evaluated maturity, your open-minded thinking, your forward thinking views on RPG design, RPG business acumen and legal knowledge of NDAs and the OGL. Decry those who disagree with you as close-minded, flawed, fanboy/grognard, etc. But despite this being the Internet, your opinions are still that - opinions. Opinions aren't facts just because you hold them. Facts aren't opinions just because you disagree with them.
FWIW, I was/am guilty of this as well. I realized it was pretty easy to get sucked into the arguments and a shot directed at me was to be answered in kind. I took a few weeks break from these boards around the holidays. I've come to realize responding to a personal attack isn't worth my time and I try to not take the bait (don't always succeed, but I try). I also try to avoid the less civil discussions. After adopting my new policy for a couple of weeks, I discovered that in order to avoid the more contentious discussions, I was posting here a lot less than I used to.
Regardless of which side of the 4e aisle you sit, the "community" of this particular board is sinking further into the crapper each month (specifically in the 4e forum - I'm not really seeing it elsewhere) and the ENWorld 4e forum really can't claim to be any better than the 4e forums at RPG.net, Paizo, or other RPG sites. So don't kid yourself, this isn't the realm of enlightenment and civil discourse it used to be.
<End of threadjack. For those I've offended or bored, my apologies. But as with D&D, ENWorld represented an investment of my time, a way to kick back and relax, and interact with fellow gamers. I'm saddened that those feelings continue to diminish.>
