D&D 4E Mouseferatu weighs in on 4e

[Shazman]

Most devils are cowards. They are strong & very tactile leaders who will do anything to win. They are using him as the general of an army. Thus, he doesn't want to come face to face with another pit fiend unless it is to deliver the final killing blow. After which he will promote the devils involved in the war to a higher form.

Against a Balor. He would over power him with sheer numbers and tactics. Most pitfiends in hell will have magic items, different held items, & a class level or two. I'd assume controller or leader levels.

I think they made him too weak alone. Plus, he should of got some resistance to acid. I'd say 10. He also, should of gotten at least one non-fire poison ability probably again acidic or normal in damage type. Too bad no Unholly or Lawful damage.

Pit fiends should be able to handle a groups of PC's by themselves even if that is not their preferred tactic. They are supposed to be some seriously bad dudes.

 

[Scribble]

Pit fiends should be able to handle a groups of PC's by themselves even if that is not their preferred tactic. They are supposed to be some seriously bad dudes.

Why?

There are plenty of "seriously bad dudes" throughout history that couldn't single handedly take on a pack of rabid psychopaths armed to the teeth with weapons and magic...

 

[kennew142]

I agree, but I also try to bring things players want into my world. My 'compromise' is, usually, "Yes, you can play Race X (if it meets campaign power level limits), but be prepared for the racial fluff to change a *lot*."

I've done that as well. I will be allowing halflings in my next homebrew since they've become so divorced from hobbits. Gnomes would have been out no matter what. My players know the various (mostly Dragonlance related) reasons for that stance. We have multiple GMs in the group, most of whom haven't been homebrewing - they can play gnomes in those games if they must. [I should add that I haven't booted them out of any Eberron or FR campaigns I've run.]

My original point was regarding the idea that tieflings and dragonborn in the 'core rules' makes it hard on a GM who has to tell players no. If you homebrew, you have to be prepared to tell people no. There will almost always be some things that simply do not fit the tone or backstory of the setting. I've done it with races, feats, spells, magic items, etc....

 

[kennew142]

Pit fiends should be able to handle a groups of PC's by themselves even if that is not their preferred tactic. They are supposed to be some seriously bad dudes.

They can.

The fact that they are not solo monsters simply means that they can't take on a whole party of PCs the same level that they are. They are tough enough for PCs a few levels lower.

The same argument could be made for any number of monsters that gamers perceive as bad dudes. Mindflayers come to mind.

I can't say how much I dislike the 3e concept that every encounter was with one really tough opponent. I would be highly unlikely to use a pit fiend alone against PCs anyway. A pit fiend boss, plus his lower level flunkies sounds about right to me.

 

[med stud]

Pit fiends should be able to handle a groups of PC's by themselves even if that is not their preferred tactic. They are supposed to be some seriously bad dudes.

High political power doesn't equal high personal power. Pit fiends hold such power over other devils that they can kill them with a minor action. All devils below Asmodeus will obey them.

Also, they are level 26. For the absolute majority of all creatures a pit fiend will be undefeatable.

 

[coyote6]

T he only issue I have with the 4e comments made by the play testers is the lack of craft skills and the like. [...]
Heck SR4s knowledge skill system is better IMO. Or even something similar to D&Ds 2es non-weapon proficiencies let people trade in language skills for other fluff skills like carpentry.

I was thinking that if I wanted PCs to have some defined non-combat/non-adventuring skills, I'd house-rule in something like SR's "Knowledge" skills.

(I'm sure some third party will come up with some alternate rules, too, though if Ari's writing all of Necro's "Advanced PH", it probably won't be in that book, since [IIRC] he kind of likes the lack. )

 

[Rechan]

Pit fiends should be able to handle a groups of PC's by themselves even if that is not their preferred tactic. They are supposed to be some seriously bad dudes.

Given that we know that PCs in the Epic tier can fight and defeat Gods, I think assuming that a Pit Fiend, 4 levels below the Epic cap (30) be on par with fighting A God is a bit much.

 

[Dausuul]

It doesn't sound believable to me.

There are too many playtesters, and at least ONE would be morally outraged enough to come forth and say "I am Fred, I am a playtester, as proof here's a scan 1/2 a page of a playtest draft of the rules, and here's the letter I was sent. I don't care if I never playtest again, the world must know."

Few corporations are that stupid. This reminds me of the early paranoia about the OGL.

Uh, breaking your NDA carries a few more consequences than "you'll never playtest again." That's a binding contract right there. WotC can and will haul you up in court for that.

 

[Agamon]

The email exists, according to several different posters in that paizo thread (check the end of page 4 and page 5). One can only hope their design efforts outstrip their PR moves to-date, although that isn't setting the bar very high.

Emphasis mine. The 4E board at Paizo is a haven of negativity. It's really quite sad, and I'm not at all surprised that this originated there.

Nothing stopping me from going over there (other than maturity), stating that I'm a playtester and that I nor any of my group received this email. And hey, I wrote it on the internet, it must be true.

 

[Vigilance]

Emphasis mine. The 4E board at Paizo is a haven of negativity. It's really quite sad, and I'm not at all surprised that this originated there.

Nothing stopping me from going over there (other than maturity), stating that I'm a playtester and that I nor any of my group received this email. And hey, I wrote it on the internet, it must be true.

Not the internet, just the Paizo forums, because everyone knows they kick real, bring it old school, and all that other good stuff over there.

And they certainly, never, would post something untrue just to try and spin a positive 4e story (playtesters saying the LIKE the game?!?! they MUST be marketing shills!) and somehow make it negative.