Move Silently Question

[kreynolds]

So much for trying to understand the other viewpoint eh?

I am trying to see your viewpoint, but in this particular case, you are flat out wrong. You simply refuse to admit it, and there's nothing I can do about that.

I can't believe that 'walk' is supposed to mean 'hustle for 3 seconds and then stop' for one single entry on the table, but not for any others.

That's what tactical movement is. See the relevant sections of the PH I mentioned above.

Walking is walking, and when you walk you move 30 feet over the course of 6 seconds, just like the table says.

Not as far as tactical movement is concerned, because in combat...

Characters generally don't walk during combat. They hustle or run.

...and the table is referring to Tactical movement in one round.

 

[kreynolds]

Honestly, I think if we're all consistent it'll be fine.

I do too. I guess it just kinda bugs me that as it is written, you could be limited to 7.5 ft per move. Seems sloppy to me. But, like you said, consistency is what's important.

 

[drnuncheon]

I am trying to see your viewpoint, but in this particular case, you are flat out wrong. You simply refuse to admit it, and there's nothing I can do about that.

Funny, I feel exactly the same way about you.

When I see this sentence:

"Characters usually don't walk during combat: They hustle or run."

I do not say to myself "Gee, self, what line on the table should I use to see how fast the characters are moving in combat? I know! I'll use the line that says 'walk', because that's exactly what they are not doing!"

Where do you see the word 'walk' in the following sentence? "A character who moves his or her speed and takes some action, such as attacking or casting a spell, is hustling for about half the round and doing something else the other half."

Answer: You don't. Not unless you're speaking some strange variant English that nobody else does. So why in the name of whatever higher powers you may or may not believe in would you assume that you would therefore look at the 'walk' line of the movement table? I tmakes no sense whatsoever.

Your problem is that you are seeing that 30' in the walk line on Table 9-3 and getting stuck on it. You think "my speed is 30', therefore that must be the line of the table I should use." The fact that it says 'walk', which you usually do not do in combat, gets ignored. The fact that you are only moving for half the round, rather than a full round which is what the table reflects, is also ignored.

Since you usually hustle during combat, look at the hustle line. I know, it's a shocker, looking at the line for the actual type of movement that you are doing, but stick with me. If you hustle for a full round in combat, you go 60' - wow, just what the table says, and it agrees with the description of the double move in the combat section (which, as we have repeatedly agreed, assumes that you ar hustling, which is to say jogging at roughly 6 mph). If you run for a full round in combat, you go 120 feet - again, just what the table says.

So, if you walk for a full round in combat, you go...how far? 30 feet. The fact that you can hustle for 30 feet and then do something else is completely irrelevant to that table.

J

 

[kreynolds]

Funny, I feel exactly the same way about you.

Of course you do. I doubt we will make any headway on this at all.

The fact that you can hustle for 30 feet and then do something else is completely irrelevant to that table.

Actually, that is exactly what the table is talking about. You want it to mean a double-move at half speed because that would help your argument. It doesn't say that though, and you're taking your frustrations out on me. It's not my fault. I didn't write the book.

 

[IceBear]

Of course you do. I doubt we will make any headway on this at all.

And that's why I said we should declare this thread done

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

And that's why I said we should declare this thread done

I know. Seriously, I'm not baiting him.

 

[The Souljourner]

[edit] I'm all for declaring the discussion over, and just agreeing to disagree. I actually wasn't going to post again, but... well we all know how easy it is to get dragged back into these things. [/edit]

Can I ask that everyone please calm down just a bit? Things are getting pretty heated, and that's never a good sign. I know it's frustrating when something is so clearly obvious to you, and yet you can't get someone else to see it. However, if we all just take a breath and try to be polite, we're much more likely to actually get somewhere.

I don't think tactical in that table means "in one move action". It's a high level description of the time frame. Tactical time frame means when you're keeping track of things round by round. Local timeframe means when you're keeping track of things minute by minute. Overland is when you're keeping track of things in hours or days.

When the villain says "Your sister will plunge into the liquid hot magma in exactly 30 seconds", you start keeping track of time tactically, i.e. round by round. By the same token, if that same villain said you had one hour, you'd start keeping track of movement by minutes (i.e. local time).

I have to agree with drnuncheon and say that in that table, they're all dealing with full rounds of nothing but movement. That much should be obvious when it says "walk - 30'". We've already decided that walking 30' in a round takes a double move, right? So, do you really think for the one round (tactical) column, they actually didn't mean "Walk"? I don't understand why they would do that.

I understand that 7.5' per round sucks to deal with... but what about when dwarves in medium armor try to make a move action at walking speed? That's 7.5' too.

-Nate, aka The Souljourner

 

[kreynolds]

Can I ask that everyone please calm down just a bit? Things are getting pretty heated, and that's never a good sign. I know it's frustrating when something is so clearly obvious to you, and yet you can't get someone else to see it. However, if we all just take a breath and try to be polite, we're much more likely to actually get somewhere.

I'm perfectly calm. Actually, drnuncheon is being pretty polite too. He's furstrated, that I can tell, but he is by no means behaving inappropriately. It's admirable and appreciated.

So, do you really think for the one round (tactical) column, they actually didn't mean "Walk"?

Yes.

I don't understand why they would do that.

Because that table is referring to tactical movement, and in tactical movement, your speed determines how far you can move and still have time to take another action.

but what about when dwarves in medium armor try to make a move action at walking speed? That's 7.5' too.

Unless the move action is a tactical move, in which case they can move 15 feet.

 

[IceBear]

Yeah, that's true - don't have any dwarf characters so I haven't had to deal with it (that would suck).

What WotC should have done is state the the speed stat is your walking speed per round and set it to 15ft..

Then say, in combat you can move upto twice your speed in a move action.

This would have everyone on the same page.

I don't think this is getting heated, and I've always understood drnuncheon's position (in fact I think he very well could be right). I'm just used to doing everything with the speed statistic (ie 30ft per move action) that I consider this to be the normal speed that the move silently refers to. I even found a passage in the glossary that stated that the 30ft per move action is your normal speed. That's why I feel that this is the speed they were referring too. Unfortuately, they just seem to divide all speeds in half to determine the movement rate.

Since I don't have any dwarves in medium armor, I don't have to deal with 7.5ft moves and I'll do my best not to introduce them

I'm fine with doing 1/2 speed. Out of combat, 15ft per round and in combat 15ft per move action in combat. I'm not going to have someone sneaking moving as fast as someone walking as I'm either going to be in combat mode or round mode and it'll still end up with the "walker" moving twice as fast.

IceBear

 

[drnuncheon]

Actually, that is exactly what the table is talking about. You want it to mean a double-move at half speed because that would help your argument. It doesn't say that though, and you're taking your frustrations out on me. It's not my fault. I didn't write the book.

Show me where it says 'walk' means 'hustle for one move action then do something else'. That's all I'm asking.

J