Move Silently Question

[IceBear]

No, I don't think I am. I've rationalized (and Rel agrees) why there is a difference.

3E is all about the 5ft square - it's all but saying you need a grid and figures to play on, where, in the past it was less emphasized. Using your base speed of 30ft per round gives us 7.5ft per move action when moving silently, and that just doesn't fit the 5ft grid. Thus, I just feel in my gut that in combat they were thinking 15ft per move action when moving silently and didn't realize that this would allow the person to move just as fast as someone walking outside of combat. This is where there is a problem.

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

I am, but I believe you are reading it wrong.

I'm not.

Moving 30' and then acting is a half-round hustle, not a walk.

Not according to Table 9-3. It specfically states One Round (Tactical), then lists a speed of 30 feet beside Walk, beneath the 30 foot Speed.

Referring to Chapter 8: Combat, Movement and Position. Table 8-6: Tactical Speed, clearly shows that a human with no armor or light armor has a speed of 30 feet. This very same chapter also explains that you can move your movement rate and still take another action.

I'm not trying to be rude, but you are clearly mistaken as to what the first entry in Table 9-3 represents.

(that's lower on the page)

It's also in the first entry of Table 9-3. See previous answer.

I don't see why you think it should reflect a move action and a standard action, when none of the other lines do so.

I don't see how you think it doesn't. It's very clear.

 

[Li Shenron]

3E is all about the 5ft square - it's all but saying you need a grid and figures to play on, where, in the past it was less emphasized. Using your base speed of 30ft per round gives us 7.5ft per move action when moving silently, and that just doesn't fit the 5ft grid. Thus, I just feel in my gut that in combat they were thinking 15ft per move action when moving silently and didn't realize that this would allow the person to move just as fast as someone walking outside of combat. This is where there is a problem.

IceBear

Although I have the same feeling, I wouldn't quote your 7,5ft-move rant "can't be because it doesn't fit the grid": when Climbing you move quarter-Speed in a MEA, which gives you exactly 7,5ft if your Speed is 30ft . I know you usually don't use 3D grids, but still...

 

[IceBear]

Although I have the same feeling, I wouldn't quote your 7,5ft-move rant "can't be because it doesn't fit the grid": when Climbing you move quarter-Speed in a MEA, which gives you exactly 7,5ft if your Speed is 30ft . I know you usually don't use 3D grids, but still...

No I wouldn't because you're still in the same 5ft square just at a different position on the z-axis You're forced to track the altitude of the climber just like in the old days (before battlemats) where you had to keep track of the position of the players on the 2D plane as well (and moving 7.5ft wouldn't be an issue).

Also, I apologize if you think I'm ranting on that. To me I can see either position being right (and I think they might be due to a designer mistake) except one fits nicely on a 5-ft grid and the other doesn't. Since *I* am a lazy DM when it comes to movement now (hey - the grid takes care of everything, I don't want to have to track anything ) I'm going with the 1/2 speed regardless of the context. Out of combat - 15ft per round. In combat, 15ft per move action.

We've been having a fairly friendly debate at this time and I just wanted to clearly explain to the other side why I was going to use this, despite their arguments. That's all.

IceBear

 

[drnuncheon]

Not according to Table 9-3. It specfically states One Round (Tactical), then lists a speed of 30 feet beside Walk, beneath the 30 foot Speed.

Yes. Walk. Not hustle. Walk.

Is a hustle a walk? No, it's a hustle. It's twice as fast as a walk.

Are you walking when you move 30 feet and then do something else? No, you're hustling - you're moving twice as fast as you would if you were walking: "A character who moves his speed and takes some action, such as attacking or casting a spell, is hustling for about half the round". (p 143)

You are making too much of the fact that half a round of hustling lets you move the same distance as a full round of walking. Of course it does! Hustling is twice as fast, but if you only take a single move, you move for half as long. 30 * 2 * 1/2 = 30.

Is there any conceivable reason to say that 'walk' on that table represents hustling for half a round and then standing around for the other half of the round doing something else, when 'walk' never means that anywhere else in the book? No.

Is 'walk' half the speed of a hustle? Yes.

Is 30 feet per round half of 60 feet per round? Yes.

Is, therefore, a 'double move' of walking half the speed of a double move of hustling? Yes.

Is it not logical, therefore, to presume that the first entry on the table in Chapter 9 reflects how far one can get doing nothing but movement type X for time period Y, just like every other entry on the table? Yes.

J

 

[Rel]

You would need to use the rules for extended hustling. Forced Marching rules only apply to extended walking. If combat speed really is twice as fast as overland speed, then hustling applies, not forced march.

Thank you for clarifying. My earlier comment was just intended to give an indication as to where the extended hustling rules were located in the PHB (as if I needed to tell you that ). I should have said "the extended hustling rules mentioned in the Overland Movement section" and been done with it.

 

[Rel]

Yeah Rel, he did post before you

IceBear

Well, I see that now. But you see, my first post in this thread was the first post on page 3 and he posted his while I was composing mine and I didn't go back and check page 2 and it really isn't my fault and WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THAT OVER THERE?

*Rel sneaks out of the thread, mildly embarassed.*

 

[kreynolds]

Is it not logical, therefore, to presume that the first entry on the table in Chapter 9 reflects how far one can get doing nothing but movement type X for time period Y, just like every other entry on the table?

Presume all you want. That's not what the table represents. Not at all. I'm sorry you don't like it, but that's the way it is.

 

[drnuncheon]

Presume all you want. That's not what the table represents. Not at all. I'm sorry you don't like it, but that's the way it is.

So much for trying to understand the other viewpoint eh?

I guess we're at an impasse. I can't believe that 'walk' is supposed to mean 'hustle for 3 seconds and then stop' for one single entry on the table, but not for any others. (Unless you think that overland travel is also this bizzare jogging/stopping hybrid, in which case your world is very strange.)

But, you're flat out wrong, and I'm sorry you can't seem to understand that. Walking is walking, and when you walk you move 30 feet over the course of 6 seconds, just like the table says.

J

 

[IceBear]

I declare this thread done

Honestly, I think if we're all consistent it'll be fine.

IceBear