D&D 5E Movement and the Help Action

[MrZeddaPiras]

Hello everyone, this is my first post here.

I got into a discussion yesterday with my gaming group about the use of the Help Action, and I was wondering if someone had the same problem with the interpretation of the rule. The book says "you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you. You feint, distract the target, or in some other way team up to make your ally’s attack more effective. If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage."

So my understanding is that, for example, Goblin A could move next to Character Y using half his movement, use the Help Action to help Goblin B attack Character Y, disengage using his bonus action, and use the other half of his movement to move away. When his turn comes, Goblin B attacks Character Y with advantage, with a melee or ranged weapon. A friend of mine is saying that Goblin A needs to be adjacent to Character Y when Goblin B attacks for him to gain advantage.

I hope I managed to explain myself . Also, sorry if this was asked before, I searched the forums but to no avail.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I think this might be up to DMs interpretation. By RAW, you don't seem to have to be next to the target. But I could certainly see it being reasonable to say that you stop distracting someone when you are no longer in range.

 

[Sage Genesis]

You don't have to remain adjacent to the target. Goblin A can use the Help action, move away, and still provide the benefit to Goblin B. It's just one of the many artifacts that come from turn-based initiative. It may look like Goblin A and Goblin B aren't acting simultaneously because of the abstraction but in-character they sort of are.

Besides, this also prevents the Help action from being negated by the target. Imagine if Character Y's turn is in between the goblins. He could simply step a bit to the left to put space in between himself and Goblin A, thereby entirely negating the goblin's turn and action. I would hope it's obvious that that's unreasonable.

 

[Malbet]

Hi everybody, first post for me too

I was the one contesting Zedda on the matter, my point being that the rule states:

- you can aid a friendly creature...
- ...in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you"

Maybe I'm missing something but it seems to me that the attack must be made on a creature 5 feet from you (helping); it is not a hit and run action, but it's positional and persistent.

I don't even think i'm interpreting it, that's the RAW wording.

For me it means that yes, a creature can move out of my reach and prevent my Help action, getting an opportunity attack with my reaction.

Otherwise the creature can disengage and move away from me by using his action to counter mine. So, I can't snap an arrow with advantage on a target running from the combat because someone has "helped" me previously.

At last, if you are dead or unconscious, your friend can't benefit from help.


This is, in my opinion, one of many time-dependant actions, that stick to the turn-based essence of the game. Obviously this is a wider discussion, but even if I agree you must not force the initiative rule, you must still consider that events are separated. In this case, you action exteds to the same timeframe as the attack.


This is also true for the standard Help action... using it like an "one-shot" leads to other weird situations:
- First in order of intiative: I move 15ft, Help a friend climb a tree and move 15ft away, to use Action Surge on my enemy
- Three more characters and monsters... I die
- Last in order: my friend moves 15ft, uses my Help (from beyond...) and climbs the tree with advantage.


Writing about it I'm starting to think that it mostly depends on the way you look at Initiative. Goes without saying that the DM rules supreme on any issue, but it seems to me that this is ambiguous at best and that needs to be addressed.

 

[Shiroiken]

I don't actually care about RAW, but I would allow this. In the OP case of goblins, it's not any better (the goblin should just attack, because 2 attacks is better than 1 w/ advantage). In the case of helping someone climbing a tree, you could have simply pulled down a branch (which they grabbed), notched a foothold with a weapon, etc. All of those could have been done on your turn.

An entire round takes place in 6 seconds. Everyone is active the entire time, not waiting around for their "turn." We just break up the action into manageable segments called turns.

 

[wedgeski]

I would certainly allow this for many of the reasons that have already been offered. Small fish making the bigger fish more dangerous is a fun, engaging strategy for the players to counter.

 

[Malbet]

An entire round takes place in 6 seconds. Everyone is active the entire time, not waiting around for their "turn." We just break up the action into manageable segments called turns.

But timing of actions DOES matter. A spell goes off on a specific moment, a monster dies in another...

I remember lots of games with pre-declared action or categorized initiative (spell first, then ranged, then melee) in which you can attack a dead monster if it goes down before your turn, where you may or may not be able to change your action due to events... but this is not one of them.

Nonetheless it's not that I'm against that thing, even better if the player tells me it does something specific that I can summarize as Help instead of mechanically saying "I use Help on Mike's character", but as two out of three DMs present at the time AND the first two answering here agreed, I'm curious if it's plain wrong or it's open to interpretation.

I'm trying to stick to the rulebook, at the moment, and I want to give my players clear options which can also be "depends on what you do exactly".

 

[Thyrwyn]

Requiring the "Helper" to stick around when aiding an attack seems within the rules to me. I would probably run it that way.

 

[Sage Genesis]

Hi everybody, first post for me too

I was the one contesting Zedda on the matter, my point being that the rule states:

- you can aid a friendly creature...
- ...in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you"

Maybe I'm missing something but it seems to me that the attack must be made on a creature 5 feet from you (helping); it is not a hit and run action, but it's positional and persistent.

I don't even think i'm interpreting it, that's the RAW wording.

Hi, welcome.

The "within 5 feet of you" is a restriction on the Help action itself. It specifies when and against whom you can use the action. The limitations on for how long the effect lingers are specified in the last sentence, namely:
"If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage."

There is only a time limitation on the Help action after it's been performed. There is no positional limitation.

(By the way, there is no such thing as not interpreting text. We are always interpreting text.)



For added bonus, let's see what the devs themselves said about this:
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/11/03/help-action-2/

 

[fjw70]

I agree nothing RAW seems to require the helper to remain with 5' but a DM could rule that way if they wanted. I would allow the helper to move away.