Movies that I just don't get

[buzzard]

But telling me that my opinion is the result of a lack of education or deep thought on my part is somewhat disingenuous.

I don't believe dinsingenious is the correct word. Obnoxious is.

Based on the man's tirade I will probably avoid watching Ninja Scroll (not that I watch much anime in any case) since I have now attached negative value to his opinion.

buzzard

 

[pezagent]

I like John Hughes movies as much as anyone, but . . . huh?

John Hughes vs. Quentin Tarantino


From Sixteen Candles:

GEEK: How’s it going?

SAM: How’s what going?

GEEK: You know, things, life, whatnot.

SAM: Life is not whatnot, and it’s none of your business.

GEEK: So you going to the dance tonight?

SAM: That’s also none of your business.

GEEK: (laughs) Are you inhibited about dancing in public? You don’t have to dance. You could just stand there with me and my dudes, and just be you.

SAM: Sounds major.

GEEK: So what’s the story, you got a guy or what?

SAM: Yes, three big ones and they lust wimp blood, so quit bugging me or I’ll sick them all over your weenie ass.

GEEK: You know I’m getting input here that I’m reading is relatively hostile. I mean I just…

SAM: Go to hell.

GEEK: Very hostile. Come on, what’s the problem here, I’m a boy, you’re a girl…is there something wrong with my trying to put together some kind of relationship between us.

The bus begins to slow down and Sam gets her stuff together to get off but he won’t let her.

GEEK: Okay look, I know you have to go, just answer me one question.

SAM: Yes, you’re a total fag.

GEEK: (laughs) That wasn’t the question. (pause) Am I turning you on?

Sam rolls her eyes and gets up and off the bus. The Geek leans back and talks to the girl in the neck brace.

GEEK: It’s encouraging, very encouraging.

GIRL: Uh-huh.

GEEK: You know a girl with a hat is just…whoa…vogue.

GIRL: Uh…yeah.

From Pulp-Fiction:

Buddy comes back with the drinks. Mia wraps her lips around the straw of her shake.

MIA: Yummy!

VINCENT: Can I have a sip of that? I'd like to know what a five-dollar shake tastes like.

MIA: Be my guest. She slides the shake over to him.

MIA: You can use my straw, I don't have kooties.

Vincent smiles.

VINCENT: Yeah, but maybe I do.

MIA:Kooties I can handle.

He takes a sip.

VINCENT: Goddamn! That's a pretty f6ckin' good milk shake.

MIA: Told ya.

VINCENT: I don't know if it's worth five dollars, but it's pretty f6ckin' good.

He slides the shake back. Then the first of an uncomfortable silence happens.

MIA: Don't you hate that?

VINCENT: What?

MIA: Uncomfortable silences. Why do we feel it's necessary to yak about bullsh6t in order to be comfortable?

VINCENT: I don't know.

MIA: That's when you know you found somebody special. When you can just shut the f6ck up for a minute, and comfortably share silence.

VINCENT: I don't think we're there yet. But don't feel bad, we just met each other.

MIA: Well I'll tell you what, I'll go to the bathroom and powder my nose, while you sit here and think of something to say.

VINCENT: I'll do that.

--------

Maybe if the characters in Pulp Fiction were actually doing something (as Aristotle said, action is character) then all this dialog treatment would be great. But for me it's always like watching people read scripts from a scenewriting class. Pulp Fiction is like a bad play--and that's why I suggested perhaps reading some good plays if one found this sort of dialog treatment interesting. I suggested John Guare's House of Blue Leaves as it treats contemporary dialog with wit and charm. It doesn't butcher it or paint it over the character's face. It subtly reveals the character inside--even though it is all rather absurd, rather than hiding the characters behind paper-mache masks as Tarantino's work does. His characters are pre-teens smoking because they think it makes them look cool. Hughes characters are teenagers trying to look cool. There's the only difference.

Tarantino's crap could be just as interesting if the lead roles were replaced by parrots or even better--sock puppets. (The only scene worth watching in PF is the one with Christopher Walken) Pulp Fiction will never be added to my collection of DVDs--his movies are very empty. One could usually find the same conversations in the mens room at the now defunct Twilo of New York or any trendy restaurant with Eurotrash present. The only movie I actually enjoyed of his was True Romance and that's because it had Patricia Arquette in it and it was directed by Tony Scott.

/johnny

 

[pezagent]

I don't believe dinsingenious is the correct word. Obnoxious is.

Based on the man's tirade I will probably avoid watching Ninja Scroll (not that I watch much anime in any case) since I have now attached negative value to his opinion.

buzzard

I find that people who indirectly refer to people (the man) and publicly announce their resentment are not only obnoxious but emotionally abusive. I feel very violated when people do this, and I don't like it. And when people do act this way, I will confront them.

I think you're a jerk for posting this. Nobody asked you to involve yourself in this conversation. A tirade? Please. Within the realm of the internet, a mild flame, geared towards an entire post that was based on the assumption I was making a personal attack via association. In this case, the original poster took offense becuase I can't stand Tarantino's work. Is that my problem? No. Do you have a problem with other people's opinions? It seems so. Welcome to the world of human interaction and debate. My opinons belong to me. Your spite, resentment, or child-like actions of public-humility won't change them. We might as well resort to this:

"Lisa doesn't eat meat! Lisa, are you going to marry a carrot?"
(sarcastically) "Yes, I'm going to marry a carrot."
"See! She admitted it! Lisa's going to marry a carrot!"

I've heard that resentment is like you taking poison and waiting for me to die. What do you think?

/johnny

 

[TiQuinn]

The only movie I actually enjoyed of his was True Romance and that's because it had Patricia Arquette in it and it was directed by Tony Scott.

Now THAT'S funny! Quentin Tarantino is empty but Tony Scott...well, now you're talking classic filmmaking! ;-)

 

[buzzard]

I find that people who indirectly refer to people (the man) and publicly announce their resentment are not only obnoxious but emotionally abusive. I feel very violated when people do this, and I don't like it. And when people do act this way, I will confront them.

Umm. "Waah". Ok your high and mighty opinions got called and now you're upset. Get over it. I didn't think you were worth the effort of looking up your name. You are confirming my assessment.

I think you're a jerk for posting this. Nobody asked you to involve yourself in this conversation. A tirade? Please. Within the realm of the internet, a mild flame, geared towards an entire post that was based on the assumption I was making a personal attack via association. In this case, the original poster took offense becuase I can't stand Tarantino's work. Is that my problem? No. Do you have a problem with other people's opinions? It seems so. Welcome to the world of human interaction and debate. My opinons belong to me.

<some amount of drivel deleted for brevity>

There are a number fallacious claims here worth addressing.
A) This was not a conversation, but a message board. Your rants were for public consumption. Thus, everyone is allowed to play. Just because you want to pick up your marbles and go home doesn't mean you get to set the rules.

B) Tirade is well described when you explain that people's opinions are worthless because they are insufficiently educated to have ones which match yours. Feh. I'll stack my pile of degrees against yours and play bigger wee wee anytime.

C) Don't try to duck making personal attacks. If you are incapable of reading your own posts I'll hunt up the details. let's try:

"Wait, you're telling me it's okay to voice my opinion. My opinion may be that your opinion sucks. Can you deal with that?"

or
"You could say that. Oh wait, you did say that. Well, if that's what you believe, then okay. (It might not require a "deeper watch" but it may require a "better education".)"

An objective analysis says those are obnoxious statements. Live with it. Personally I find Tarantino peurile myself, but that does not justify the rubbish you have been posting.

I don't have a problem with opinions. I have a problem with people who don't know how to express them in a civil fashion. That would be you by the way Sparky.

buzzard

 

[takyris]

Pezagent, random question: What do you think of Aaron Sorkin? Do you like his dialogue, or do you find it overblown and stupid? Some people loathe it. I like it. I wonder if it's just a style difference between us, that you dislike dialogue for its own sake, while I don't have a problem with it. Given the way I write, I'm not surprised to note that I am happy to hear good dialogue, even if it doesn't advance the plot. Aristotle is welcome to his opinion, but I didn't agree with all of his assertions about ethics, so I'm quite sure that I don't care what he thinks of my movie-watching choices.

And I wasn't offended that you didn't like Tarantino, just like I hope you're not offended that I don't like anime in general. I was irked, although not offended, because of your implication that you were a better or more educated person because of your opinions.

 

[tetsujin28]

Your going to have to talk to payroll about that. MmmmmKK?

Mmmmm.Yeah. Mmmm. We're going to have to move your desk again.

 

[pezagent]

Well, my big point in relation to your post was that this is primarily a thread for posting your opinions. Your opinions were posted using language indicative of statements of fact, not opinion, with veiled commentary implying that anyone who feels differently is less informed.

That's your interpretation. Perhaps if you asked for clarification before jumping to conclusions we wouldn't be having this next generation conversation. I'm not responsible for your interpretation of my opinions. That's why people ask questions.

As for the usual power fantasy garbage, I'm going to stand by it (although tacked-on is probably overdoing it -- I stand by their romances generally being messed up situations that are wish fulfillment for geeks, but the power fantasy "All the hot girls like this guy, but he never realizes it" element is integral to the story, so it isn't tacked on, so consider that rescinded).

Well that's fine, but I seriously don't understand what you're talking about. That's why I'm asking you what you're talking about. I don't know what a "messed up" situation is. I also don't understand the "wish fulfillment for geeks power fantasy" stuff. Could you be more specific by citing actual movies? This might help the conversation.

Granted, the entire genre is not that bad, but in my opinion, large elements of it are -- and most of the anime-lovers I know do not differentiate between the "geek harem" stuff and the good stuff.

So you're going to stereotype people by assuming that all anime fans don't know the good stuff from the sex anime? So if the only Native American you knew murdered your best friend then all Native Americans are murderers as well? This is all or nothing thinking. The world isn't black and white, good or bad. Just because one Anime movie has half-naked chicks running around in bikinis all the time doesn't mean they all do. Lain is a great example of very thoughtful and deep sci-fi Anime.

Sure, the same can be said for almost any other genre, but in most other genres, the fans differentiate between the good stuff and the bad stuff.

Do they? I think you're generalizing. There's no proof to suggest fans of one genre are different than fans of another. This is absurd. You're trying to prove your point within a limited personal opinion. (I'm not saying that you're limited, I'm saying that all opinions are limited unless specifically attempting to be objective. Even in marketing practices surveys are often biased when they imply they are objective.)

I mean, fantasy-movie geeks will, on average, consider LotR good, D&D movie bad, and Krull campy, regardless of whether or not they personally like either of the above (I love Krull, acknowledging the goofball factor, and love to razz the D&D movie).

I was wondering when somebody was going to bring up Krull. But once again you're stating personal opinion, which I can probably trust because I think you're a fantasy-movie goer. So why wouldn't you trust an Anime fan?

Perhaps we're thinking about different ninja scrolls. Poisoned chick, sword on a little wire, and something involving exploding corpses? I recall it being pretty, but ultimately mired in the usual brooding hero anime cliches and not interesting enough fight-wise to pull me in -- a movie that is pretty but stupid .

Yes, we're talking about the same movie. That you found it stupid may reflect your own personality, not mine. Most people I know and enjoy spending time with find it to be one of the best Anime movies ever made. Even Roger Ebert liked it. (?) In regards to the "hero anime cliché"--what other sorts of hero's do you know of? Have you read Joseph's Campbell's Hero of 1,000 faces? There is ultimately only one type of hero that takes many types of journeys at different times in life. You seem to be implying that anime hero's are different than other types of heros. Is this so? It's not true. A hero is a hero is a hero. One learns in the early stages of one's writing career that all great stories have already been told. It's only by rejuxtaposition that hopefully people find new meaning in stories. That's all there is to it. And Ninja Scroll tells a very common tale of a hero's journey, and it does it beautifully. It's a real joy to watch. I think you are jaded for some reason. Maybe you had a bad experience, ate some bad Japanese food or something...???

That is, of course, only my opinion. And you are welcome to yours. But telling me that my opinion is the result of a lack of education or deep thought on my part is somewhat disingenuous.

I never said that your opinion is the result of a lack of education, did I? Or was that your interpretation of what I posted?

/johnny

 

[pezagent]

Umm. <edited for television>

Once again, you're stepping over the boundaries that I've already set up with you. I told you that when people get abusive with me I'll confront them. I think you're an abusive jerk and I don't like you at all. I would say this to your face without hesitation. So please don't be offended if I don't speak to you anymore for the duration of my lifetime. I don't want people like you in my life.


/johnny

 

[Eridanis]

I would say this to your face without hesitation.

Then please take it to private email. This is no place for name-calling.