D&D 5E Moving out of concealment to attack - when is stealth broken?

[Stalker0]

A common scenario. A character is currently in darkness and hidden. The character moves 20 ft towards an enemy, and after the first 10 ft of movement, is no longer in the darkness. They then proceed to make two attacks. They complete their move by moving back into the darkness.

At what point does the character lose the benefit of stealth?

1) As soon as they first move out of the darkness. None of their attacks get advantage.
2) The first attack gets advantage, then they lose stealth.
3) Both attacks get advantage, then they lose stealth.
4) They maintain stealth the entire time

 

[Swarmkeeper]

A common scenario. A character is currently in darkness and hidden. The character moves 20 ft towards an enemy, and after the first 10 ft of movement, is no longer in the darkness. They then proceed to make two attacks. They complete their move by moving back into the darkness.

At what point does the character lose the benefit of stealth?

1) As soon as they first move out of the darkness. None of their attacks get advantage.
2) The first attack gets advantage, then they lose stealth.
3) Both attacks get advantage, then they lose stealth.
4) They maintain stealth the entire time

#1 unless the DM determines the enemy hasn’t seen the PC yet in which case #2, per the Unseen Attackers and Targets rules (PHB p 194)

 

[Undrave]

#1 unless the DM determines the enemy hasn’t seen the PC yet in which case #2, per the Unseen Attackers and Targets rules (PHB p 194)

Hiding in battle would be pretty frickin' useless if it was #1 and Rogues would never do it. Rogues are supposed to get Advantage every turn so it should be at 2 or 3. You need to spend an action to hide (bonus for a rogue, standard for everybody else) so even if you move back into darkness you're not considered hidden. They can't see you but they know that's where you are so they won't be surprised on the following turn.

Why isn't that spelled out in the rulebook?! I don't have my book handy but I find it really stupid if it's not. That's not, in any way, a corner case, nor is it something opened to interpretation like the very concept of 'hidden' seems to be.

 

[Oofta]

Same as @DM Dave1. You can't be hidden if you can be clearly seen. Under some circumstances the target may be distracted enough that they won't notice the attacker.

In my game there are times when this will work, but only the first time if coming from the same location.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Hiding in battle would be pretty frickin' useless if it was #1.

Why isn't that spelled out in the rulebook?! I don't have my book handy but I find it really stupid if it's not. That's not, in any way, a corner case, nor is it something opened to interpretation like the very concept of 'hidden' seems to be.

In any case, it would be either 2 or 3. You need to spend an action to hide (bonus for a rogue, standard for everybody else) so even if you move back into darkness you're not considered hidden. They can't see you but they know that's where you are so they won't be surprised on the following turn.

Popping out of hiding and shooting is way different than popping out of hiding and moving 10’ across the battle area towards your target and making a melee attack. The creature is in combat and looking out for danger, which includes PCs approaching it. If the creature is not otherwise distracted, as determined by the DM, they are going to have a chance to notice someone approaching in the light.

 

[Hriston]

Yeah, as soon as you come out into the open you’re no longer hidden. The DM can decide your target’s distracted though.

 

[toucanbuzz]

1) As soon as they first move out of the darkness. None of their attacks get advantage.
2) The first attack gets advantage, then they lose stealth.

Could be both.

PHB page 177: "You can't hide from a creature that can see you....In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you." It follows that "under certain circumstances" the DM might allow you to stay hidden if the creature is "distracted," thus allowing your 1st attack to have advantage.

 

[clearstream]

A common scenario. A character is currently in darkness and hidden. The character moves 20 ft towards an enemy, and after the first 10 ft of movement, is no longer in the darkness. They then proceed to make two attacks. They complete their move by moving back into the darkness.

At what point does the character lose the benefit of stealth?

1) As soon as they first move out of the darkness. None of their attacks get advantage.
2) The first attack gets advantage, then they lose stealth.
3) Both attacks get advantage, then they lose stealth.
4) They maintain stealth the entire time

I've run now about a hundred sessions (I keep count) of stealth-heavy 5e and where I have landed is this wording -

If creatures are unsuspecting, you remain hidden in the first square you enter that is in their sight, until you move, take an action, bonus action or reaction, attack, or end your turn.

Thus, I would support 2) The first attack gets advantage, then they lose stealth. I've based this as closely as possible on the RAW. I have had to rule effectively on Mask of the Wild, Shadow Step, rogue moving ahead of the party hoping to get individual surprise, party using group checks, rogues wanting to kite in and out of hiding, warlocks using Devil's Sight and Darkness... and basically any sort of nonsense-I-mean-cunning play you can imagine!

EDIT I probably should also hedge around a free interaction, but my players seem to get the point. You're hidden (in plain sight) until you do anything or choose not to do anything.

 

[Undrave]

Popping out of hiding and shooting is way different than popping out of hiding and moving 10’ across the battle area towards your target and making a melee attack. The creature is in combat and looking out for danger, which includes PCs approaching it. If the creature is not otherwise distracted, as determined by the DM, they are going to have a chance to notice someone approaching in the light.

I guess Melee would be pretty different from ranged attack yeah...

 

[aco175]

PHB page 177: "You can't hide from a creature that can see you....In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you." It follows that "under certain circumstances" the DM might allow you to stay hidden if the creature is "distracted," thus allowing your 1st attack to have advantage.

I would think this says it all.

What would be "under certain circumstances" though, that may be more open to wiggle room.