Flamestrike
Legend
What 'extra' sneak attack?
Rogues are expected to get sneak attack damage virtually every single round.
D&D 5E Moving out of concealment to attack - when is stealth broken?
Rogues are expected to get sneak attack damage virtually every single round.
tommybahama
Adventurer
Those that have done the math like Treantmonk have said that even a rogue getting sneak attack every round does not compare to a GWM or PAM fighter in terms of damage. Or compare a sneak attack from a 5th level rogue versus a wizard at the same level casting fireball.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Sure, which is insanely easy if they attack the same target as one of their allies---which IME happens 90% of the time or better. Advantage isn't needed except the other 10%.
Rogue always have sneak attack, GWM and PAM fighters require feats, which not all tables use (about 65-75% do though IIRC), and fireball is a whammy effect with limited applications per adventuring day--sneak attack is virtually at will. Not things you should bother comparing IMO.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
The problem is that the game both says that a creature is constantly looking out for danger in combat, and then doesn't register that combat is very distracting which could allow it. If someone is constantly looking around just in case a Halfling comes out from the bushes behind him or something, he's already had his face smashed in by the guy with the mace who is fighting him. Staying alive and winning a life and death struggle requires focus.
On the other hand, combat also isn't two guys sitting in same space in the same 5 foot squares, either. It's more fluid and facings can and do change, so it's possible that the Halfling might be seen. It just shouldn't be automatic like the game makes it.
Oofta
Legend
In a whiteroom spreadsheet with the GWM or PAM fighter having things lined up in their favor. Then again I've seen a lot of people say things "don't compare" based on a subset of levels and 1-2 DPR per round. It's nothing you actually notice in gameplay.
Versus a fireball casting wizard? In the encounters where the wizard has fireball and the targets fail their save and they catch multiple enemies without collateral damage, sure. They should.
But is it really a "problem"?
The game knows that every DM has their own particular way of running stealth, especially stealth in combat. Even if they made concrete rules for one particular way of doing it... a huge number of DMs would say "I don't like that at all!" and put in their own house rules for it. And since the designers of D&D knew that to be the case (they're not dumb... they've seen the thousands of threads that have been made on D&D forums such at this for decades)... they just said "We'll make the rules more open for interpretation and let the DMs do what they were going to do anyway."
The only people this annoys are those players whose brains are so focused and stuck on what is written down in the pages of a book that the idea of choosing an interpretation is an anathema. Yes, some people are that ingrained in following letters of the law that if they don't have it they can't handle it. But since they are in the minority here I think... I believe WotC for 5E just shrugged their shoulders and said "Yeah, we know you'd like concrete rules that you can run without any thinking about them whatsoever... but thinking is and always has been a part of the game. So we're going to default to letting people think and make their own decisions rather than choose one single way and piss the other 90% of the gaming populace off. Sorry."
Asisreo
Patron Badass
Yeah. Its weird.
The PAM fighter sacrifices a good portion of other utility via other feats or ability score improvement and racial features only to get this big damage. But they need to be in a very specific situation to use it: always in melee distance.
If a creature doesn't want to be in melee of the creatures, say, a goblin, then the PAM/GWM fighter is going to have a hard time pinning them down when they're being kited. Every turn lost dashing is that much more damage not applied when they could have just used a ranged attack to fill the void. And if you were going to be doing a ton of ranged attacks, you'd probably be better taking the other feats like Xbow expert or Sharpshooter or just taking the Ability Scores and Features from other races.
No kidding, DPR should be retnamed DPRWYTAA - Damage Per Round When You Take Attack Action ... and even then it assumes you are not shoving, grappling, throwing a dagger at a foe you can't get to etc.
Realitically how often are you doing a weapon attack in combat with your "favored" weapon (i.e. the poelarm for PAM/GWM or the longbow for your Ranger sharpshooter). Realistically it is probably about 70% of the time for most melee optimized characters. For a Ranged martial character or melee Rogue or Monk it is probably more like 80%. For a ranged Rogue probably about 90%, but all of them, even the ranged Rogue will do other things in combat pretty regularly.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
The whole idea that combatants are aware in a 360 degree field of vision at all times is just...so backward and terrible.
I don’t want facing rules, but I draw the line at pretending that the completely absurd notion that an engaged combatant is hard to sneak up on makes any sense.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Or, get this, he was right to leave it up to the DM andthe group’s sense of “common sense”.
