MP2: Cunning Sneak/Stealth questions

[DracoSuave]

it is simple:

with those powers you may make a hide check even if they are not move actions.

with cunning sneak you can hide in the semi open

Well, yes, but these powers don't care about semi open or not. They just say you can go ahead and do it.

For the question regarding open terrain... yes, you become hidden, and then lose it immediately, but retain the benefits for the entirety of the power. But you can't then become hidden again, because it's the same action.

NICE power.

You can either use it to ambush someone from hidden (regardless if you started there or not), or you can use it to smack someone then go into hidden.

What you cannot do is both with it. There ARE powers that do that, and they are specialized for that purpose.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Ok, no problems with that:

so you sneak in a hit on the run, surprising your enemy while covering your own attack with your own body... maybe a thievery check would be more appropriate but who cares.^^

 

[DracoSuave]

Ok, no problems with that:

so you sneak in a hit on the run, surprising your enemy while covering your own attack with your own body... maybe a thievery check would be more appropriate but who cares.^^

I just handwave it with a 'Well, Batman can do that.'

 

[Jools]

Its nice to see the (frankly, absurdly complicated) stealth rules considered in such detail. The content of this thread is somewhat off though due to one detail that people are missing. The gist of this thread seems to be that the utility of Gloaming Cut is that you can shift and then hide in cover IF you are a cunning sneak. HOWEVER, cunning sneaks cannot reap such a benefit as the class feature specifically states that you MUST use a MOVE action. So if we accept the logic of this thread Gloaming Cut is a pretty useless power, one that allows you to make a stealth roll at the end of the action which is guaranteed to be immediately null and void (unless you're invisible or somesuch, of course). Oh WOTC, why do you have to make it all so complicated!

 

[DracoSuave]

Its nice to see the (frankly, absurdly complicated) stealth rules considered in such detail. The content of this thread is somewhat off though due to one detail that people are missing. The gist of this thread seems to be that the utility of Gloaming Cut is that you can shift and then hide in cover IF you are a cunning sneak. HOWEVER, cunning sneaks cannot reap such a benefit as the class feature specifically states that you MUST use a MOVE action. So if we accept the logic of this thread Gloaming Cut is a pretty useless power, one that allows you to make a stealth roll at the end of the action which is guaranteed to be immediately null and void (unless you're invisible or somesuch, of course). Oh WOTC, why do you have to make it all so complicated!

You don't take a penalty to Stealth checks for moving more than 2 squares, and you take a -5 penalty instead ofa -10 penalty to Stealth checks for running.
If you end a move action at least 3 squares away from your starting position, you can make a Stealth check to become hidden if you have any concealment or any cover, except for cover provided by intervening allies.

You should reread the feature before you claim it says you must do anything.

I see a lot of 'you may, you can, you don't take a penalty' but not a lot of 'you must do it this way'

But, going through MP2, a lot of people look at this power and ask 'How come I can't use it if I started hidden?'


Contrast with:

Shadow Steel Roll
Rogue Attack 3
Encounter -- Martial, Weapon
Standard Action -- Melee or Ranged weapon
Requirement: You must be Wielding a crossbow, a light blade, or a sling.
Effect: Before the attack, you shift your speed, and you can make a Stealth check to become hidden.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC. If you are hidden when you attack, you remain hidden after the attack.
Hit: 1 [W] + Dexterity modifier damage.
Cunning Sneak: The attack deals extra damage equal to your Intelligence modifier.



The above power is the exact same level as Fleeting Spirit Strike, but it actually DOES allow you to shift, hide, attack, and remain hidden afterwords.

The trade-off to be able to hide and attack and be hidden afterwords, for the same level power, is 1[W] of damage.

 

[Walking Dad]

it is simple:

with those powers you may make a hide check even if they are not move actions.

with cunning sneak you can hide in the semi open

So, in the case my character stands in superior. He doesn't hide, yet. In the next round, the player decides that hiding would be a good idea.

Has he to spend a move action to stand in the same square as before to hide?

 

[Dekana]

Yes. If you're not using some power that gives you the ability to hide, you need to use a move action to do so. Stealth checks take place "At the end of a move action." I imagine this as pulling brush over yourself or adjusting your position so as to lower your profile.

 

[DracoSuave]

So, in the case my character stands in superior. He doesn't hide, yet. In the next round, the player decides that hiding would be a good idea.

Has he to spend a move action to stand in the same square as before to hide?

He has to spend a move action to do something, but it doesn't have to be movement. A shaman could move his conjuration and hide; A warlord can use the power Knight Move, and hide.

And that is the cost of him deciding not to hide earlier; it costs nothing to do.

 

[Walking Dad]

...A warlord can use the power Knight Move, and hide.

...

And I just was convinced there were a logic behind this...

 

[eamon]

And I just was convinced there were a logic behind this...

The logic could be that it requires some amount of time and an activity that's not too focused - something measured by the action cost.

I must admit I'm not entirely sure why the rules say that when an action causes you to not remain hidden you cannot become hidden again as part of the action. This was added in the stealth errata, so presumably there's some reason for it (it's not just historical cruft from earlier versions), but the motivation eludes me...