Multi-casters, Mystic Theurges, & Epic-ness...

[jayaint]

(This post is filed under the heading of "If I did my Math correctly")

So... Any 10-level Prestige class may be continued into Epic-ness, correct?

And... Mystic Theurge is a 3.5-DMG-included, 10-level PrC, right?

Therefore... making a 30th lvl char able to be 25clr/25wiz????

lvls 1-3 = wiz
lvls 2-6 = clr
lvls 7-16 = MT (ending with 13clr/13wiz)
lvls 17, 18 = clr (or some other prestige class with +1 to spl-casting)
lvls 19, 20 = wiz (or some other prestige class with +1 to spl-casting)

for a grand total of 15 clr/15 wiz @ 20th level...

But @ 21st level... re-start with Epic Mystic Theurge, and begin closing the gap again... 50 levels of spellcasting @ 30th level... 70 levels @ 40th... etc...

My question is.... this is legal? good? ok? If so... and your character can survive through those first 6 multi-classed levels.. why wouldnt you want to do this?

 

[Pyrex]

Probably because you've misread (or haven't read) the official epic progression for the MT.

For each level of Epic MT you choose either a Divine or an Arcane class to advance. Not both.

 

[jayaint]

where is that progression? in a book? online? I haven't read it.. but would be interested to see it. Thanks.

 

[ruleslawyer]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a

Pick the one called "Epic Level Handbook update," download it (it's a .zip file), and read to the second or third page.

The epic mystic theurge is, if anything, severely underpowered. IMHO, it should either be full progression (+1 arcane) and one epic bonus feat per six levels, or half progression (+1 arcane or divine each level) and a decent number of epic bonus feats. Epic bonus feats are a caster's bread and butter at epic level, and one either has to give the MyTh a hope in heck of penetrating SR at epic levels (which he will NOT have if he's only alternating arcane and divine spellcasting levels) or some epic feats to compensate.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Since you lose that nifty double progression at Epic levels, it makes more sense to pick a nice Arcane PrC and a nice Divine PrC and then alternate levels in those. That way, at least, you can pick up some nifty extra abilities.

 

[Pax]

It'd be fine if you got 3 caster levels per 2 epic levels, say ...

11 = +1 arcane
12 = +1 arcane, +1 divine
13 = +1 divine
14 = +1 arcane, +1 divine
15 = +1 arcane
16 = +1 arcane, +1 divine
17 = +1 divine
18 = +1 arcane, +1 divine
... etc

 

[jayaint]

thanks for the info, guys...

Obviously, as my munchkin-ing brain has proposed, to keep the MyTh the same thru epic levels, might be unbalanced... but the flavor of the class is that you gain spellcasting levels in each... so why would ANYONE take said MyTh @ epic levels...? It would make more sense to take OTHER cool PrC's that give you nifty abilities (as said above, by smarter folks than I) or even regular levels as they would help your familiar/turning/etc...

That blows. I would like to be able to keep up @ an advanced rate, but not be as unbalanced as it appears. *sigh*

Not to go and get moved to house rules or anything... but would an "epic caster" prestige class be worth it... a prereq of, say, able to cast 9th lvl arcane and 9 th lvl divine, and then have it grant +1 caster level to both spellcasting classes two out of every three levels, with a bonus feat and a goodie at every 3rd level?? possible? worth it? if i get a yes or two.. i'll start a new thread in "house rules" to discuss...

thanks again.

 

[Pyrex]

IMHO, you aren't supposed to take EpicMT. WotC had to print an Epic progression for MT and it was obvious that continuing full progression for both classes was way too good. In fact, 10 levels of dual-progression is almost too good all by itself. By the time you go epic you really should choose one discipline or the other as "primary" and keep up a full progression for that one while using the other as support.

 

[Voadam]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a

Pick the one called "Epic Level Handbook update," download it (it's a .zip file), and read to the second or third page.

The epic mystic theurge is, if anything, severely underpowered. IMHO, it should either be full progression (+1 arcane) and one epic bonus feat per six levels, or half progression (+1 arcane or divine each level) and a decent number of epic bonus feats. Epic bonus feats are a caster's bread and butter at epic level, and one either has to give the MyTh a hope in heck of penetrating SR at epic levels (which he will NOT have if he's only alternating arcane and divine spellcasting levels) or some epic feats to compensate.

The problem with the update packet is that it contradicts the guidelines of the DMG and SRD on extending classes to epic levels. The Mystic Theurge has a regular progression of 1 caster level per level for both arcane and divine casting. Under the guidelines it should continue with a balance of fewer bonus epic feats (probably the slowest rate, one per five levels).

• For spellcasters, caster level continues to increase after 20th level. However, a character’s spells per day don’t increase after 20th level.
• Any class features that increase or accumulate as part of a repeated pattern also continue to increase or accumulate after 20th level at the same rate. An exception to this rule is any bonus feat progression granted as a class feature. If a character gets bonus feats as part of a class feature these do not increase with epic levels. Instead, these classes get a new bonus feat progression (described in each class summary below).

 

[James McMurray]

The problem with the update packet is that it contradicts the guidelines of the DMG and SRD on extending classes to epic levels

But as has been shown, continuinbg that progression would be unbalaned.

I think Pax's idea works best. You still get increased spellcasting, but not as fast.

Hey Pax, what about using that over at Exodus?