Multi-class Wizard/Sorcerer, Is it Viable?

[tarchon]

I had an idea last night, the

Learned Sorcerer
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d4
Requirements:
* One of heighten spell, spell mastery, or arcane preparation
* Knowledge (arcana): 10
* Spellcraft: 8
* Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells by both memorization and sorcerer-like preparation.

Class Skills: The learned sorcerer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Alchemy (Int), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Scry (Int, exclusive skill), and Spellcraft (Int).

(BAB, save advances as Sorc or Wiz)

The learned sorcerer is a rare individual who has both the raw talent to cast spells as a sorcerer and the intensive training used by wizards to achieve the same effects, and who has devoted further specialized study to integrating these styles of spellcasting.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Learned sorcerers gain no proficiency in any weapon or armor.

Spells per day: Learned sorcerers continue to gain spells and caster level in one of their arcane spell casting classes (but only one) as per the normal progression. At each level, the character may decide which progression the level will be added to.

No other special class features such as familiar ability or class bonus feats progress with levels of learned sorcerer.

Casting synergy: The learned sorcerer has the ability to meld spell slots from his arcane casting classes, so that when casting a memorized or known spell, he can expend a spell slot of the same or greater spell level from another progression at the same time to enhance the spell effects. The resulting spell will have whichever caster level is higher and, if a slot for a higher spell level is being used to enhance the primary spell, the higher effective spell level (for saving throw, etc.) also applies. The saving throw ability modifier will be the higher of the appropriate modifiers.
At the 1st level of learned sorcerer, the learned sorcerer may apply this ability to enhance 1st level (and 0-level) spells with spell slots of 1st level and lower; at 2nd level he may enhance 2nd level and lower spells with spell slots of 2nd level and lower, and so on up to 9th level.
At 10th level, the learned sorcerer's casting synergy is so advanced that all of his arcane caster levels add automatically, although to increase effective spell level, he still needs to spend an extra spell slot of the commensurate level (or use heighten spell, if known).
Using casting synergy is always a full round action, as with sorcerers using metamagic feats.

Cross-memorization: The learned sorcerer also has the ability to prepare spells known (from sorcerous casting ability) by memorization with his wizard-like spell slots, provided that the spells are allowed and of the appropriate level for the wizard-like class. The rest and preparation time requirements are no different from what they would be if the known spells were inscribed in a spellbook.

Example 1: Jimbo, a wiz 12/sor 3/learned sorcerer 2, wakes up in the wilderness without his spell books. With his cross-memorization ability, he can fill his Wizard spell slots with the 3 first level and 5 0-level spells he knows as a sorcerer, just as if he had them written in a spell book.

Example 2: Debolina, a sorc 10/ wiz 3/ learned sorcerer 1 doesn't know Feather Fall as a sorcerer spell, but she does have it memorized as a wizard. By using a 1st level sorcerer spell slot and a 1st level wizard spell slot prepared for Feather Fall (a full round action) she can cast Feather Fall with her sorcerer/learned sorcerer caster level of 11, rather than her wizard caster level of 3, increasing the range, duration, and weight limit of the spell.

Example 3: Debolina knows Charm Person only as a wizard spell. She wants to cast it on an enemy spellcaster, but her Cha bonus is much better than her Int bonus. Knowing that the enemy spellcaster probably has a good will save, she uses casting synergy with a 1st level sorcerer spell slot and the 1st level wizard spell to give the spell a DC with her favorable Cha bonus rather than her Int bonus. Since she is only a 1st level learned sorcerer however, she cannot use this ability to enhance one of her 2nd level wizard spells.

Example 4: Devomialee, the androgynous half-elf wiz 9/bard 5/learned sorcerer 3 wakes up in the wilderness without hisr spellbooks. sHe can't memorize hisr bard spell Cure Light Wounds, since that isn't on the wizard spell list. sHe can though memorize hisr 2nd level bard spell Tongues, but as a 3rd level Wiz spell. Of course sHe can still use hisr bard spells normally. Using hisr casting synergy, sHe can also cast hisr 1st level bard spell Cure Light Wounds and expend a 3rd level wizard spell slot at the same time (as a full round action) to get the effect of a 3rd level Cure Light Wounds (for what it's worth). Devomialee cannot use a 4th level spell for this though, since hisr learned sorcerer level is only 3.
This enhanced Cure Light spell would also have a caster level of 12 (wiz+l.s.) for purposes of overcoming SR if used to damage a spell-resistant undead creature.

 

[jdavis]

It seemed to work for Pug. (from Magician:Apprentice/Master by Feist) But he'd be more of a Wiz 2/Sor 20+. OK I hope I'm not the only one to have read those books.

Pug was a horrible wizard, it would be a good roleplaying hitch but not really effective. Pug's training actually worked against his magic ability in the beginning. It's been a long time since I read those books, your making me feel old.

 

[Numion]

Yes, it's doible. A Ring of Wizardry will double each classes spells of that level. I'd suggest feats like Spell pentration and greater spell pentration since the caster level for getting through SR will be difficult.

And to plug a forthcoming book, Heroes of High Favor: Elves by Bad Axe Games will have a prestige class geared towards a Wizard/Sorcerer. I think it comes out in Decemeber.

I'm somewhat experienced with high-level D&D games, and I disagree. Wiz/Sorc isn't a viable combination. It may seem that way on paper, but at higher levels the lower caster levels on both ends will hurt.

High-level D&D is more about fewer encounters than low-level game. Because the game gets complicated, you can't have too many encounters in a gaming eve. because of this, casters concentrating on fewer, but more powerful spells are more useful. That would mean the single-classed casters.

At least in my games the casters rarely run out of lower level spells, at least the sorcerers. So if the only synergy bonus of a sorc/wiz combo is doubled efficiency of the ring of wizardry... well, not too impressive.

A single higher-level spell can make or break any encounter at higher levels. A caster without such spells, but with more less useful spells isn't too impressive.

 

[alsih2o]

Devomialee, the androgynous half-elf wiz 9/bard 5/learned sorcerer 3 wakes up in the wilderness without hisr spellbooks. sHe can't memorize hisr bard spell Cure Light Wounds, since that isn't

lol

 

[bret]

A high/low multiclass is something you can get away with on the other hand. Wiz 1/Sor 19 isn't that much weaker than Sor 20. The wizard level also makes it easier for the sorceror to take Mage of the Arcane Order levels (although it makes those levels less useful as the sorceror can only use wizard slots for spellpool and will thus be limited to 1st level spells).

A pure Sorcerer can take Mage of the Arcane Order if they take the Arcane Preparation feat. In fact, it is one of the better PrC for a Sorcerer since it allows them to call for spells they don't know.

 

[Drkfathr1]

I think in any case is should fall to the DM to make sure his encounters/adventures are balanced for his group. If I had a players who was adamant about running a wizard/sorcerer, and had invested alot of time and energy into playing one, I wouldn't necessarily design an encounter that would be unbeatable, just because he wasn't single classed. High level play is difficult no matter what the circumstances, but I think it could be supported at high level without penalizing the multi-classed characters.

I've known many DM's who try as hard as they can to kill off their players, rather than just challenge them! I guess I'm just more of a story-teller at higher levels...

Still, it is hard to pass up a Wish spell for a couple of extra fireballs. (Especially with a prevalence of wands).

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

It's not really a matter of the DM adjusting the challenge rating down to 9 instead of up to 11 in order to accomodate multiclass characters. For a Sor/Wiz, it will be a matter of the DM turning the challenge rating down to 7 and the sor/wizard still being relatively useless--especially at high levels.

 

[Squire James]

This is probably more suited for a "House Rules" discussion, but I think I've come up with a pretty good system for making multiclassed spellcasters with no PrC's viable without making them too powerful.

The basic idea is that "caster level" is a standalone stat like "base attack bonus", and different classes advance it in a similar fashion. Each level in Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard, or any NPC class adds +1 to caster level (like Fighter BAB). Each level in Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, or Rogue adds +1/2 to caster level (like Wizard BAB). The NPC class adjustment is good enough IMO to make Aristocrats and Experts attractive PC class choices for spellcasters (that little dash of noble arrogance goes well with that Sorcerer arrogance, covers some holes in his Charisma-based skills, and adds martial weapon proficiency!).

This "caster level" stat determines all level-dependent parts of any spell the character casts. However, the number of spells cast still depend on each individual class. Examples:

1. An elf wants to set up a 1e/2e classic Ftr/Wiz type. Given 10 levels to work with, a Ftr4/Wiz6 can toss spells as if he were 8th level, though he still has only the spells of a 6th level Wizard. Oh yeah, he also fights rather well with his +7 BAB, about as good as a cleric.

2. A Clr5/Wiz5 could toss off 10d6 Fireballs and 2d8+10 Cure Moderate Wounds spells, but is still limited to 3rd level spells in both classes (and has to keep track of prepared spells separately).

3. A 20th level Barbarian who suddenly decides to become a Sorcerer could toss off Magic Missiles as if he were 11th level, but at this high level that would not be an imbalance (and Expeditious Retreat would probably be a better choice)!

How this affects PrC's is up to the DM. Most magic-related PrC's should add to caster level 1-to-1, but now the DM can restrict spell progression to something a bit stricter without striking quite as big a blow to casting power.

 

[Bhaal]

I'd really like to see how a half-orc wiz/sorc would do. Then to make it really neat you give some levels of barbarian, so they have the bufs and whatnot for sorcer (emphasis on bufs) and utility stuff on wizard. So in combat you buff yourself up and wade in raging. Kind of an intersting combination

 

[tarchon]

This is probably more suited for a "House Rules" discussion, but I think I've come up with a pretty good system for making multiclassed spellcasters with no PrC's viable without making them too powerful.

I'm not sure that keeps them from being too powerful since it doesn't cost anything. That clearly makes spellcasters considerably more powerful than they are in the standard rules, since being able to multiclass easily is extremely useful.
Caster level is a pretty big deal with many spells, like the difference between an 11th level magic missle and a 1st level magic missle is 5 X the missiles, so if you make it easier to pump up the caster level, there's a real need to make sure they've paid for it with something else. It also comes in with SR penetration, magic device creation, and dispel checks.
I think if caster level automatically added like this, multiclassing would almost be a no brainer in many cases. The basic idea of adding caster levels can undoubtedly be made to work, but it needs to be bought with feats, levels, skill points, or something like that.