Multi-property magic items

[77IM]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. To answer CapnZapp's original question unequivocally, no, you can't create a magic item with the traits of multiple items using any rules in the PHB, DMG or AV. (It's possible that such rules might one day appear in Dragon or some supplement, but they aren't there yet. And Artifacts shouldn't count since they use totally different rules and fulfill a different role in the game.)


I like some of the rules suggestions listed here, particularly LightPhoenix's, because of how simple it is. Question though: In your example, a +2 flaming fireburst longbow is level 8. This makes it cheaper than a +2 flaming longbow, which is level 10. Doesn't that seem weird?

The inherent difficulty I have when coming up with a rule for such items is balance. I think the bonus-by-level is very important in 4E and that trading off between bonus and properties is generally a bad idea. (Not every trade-off is a fun trade-off.) However, simply using price is a questionable balance tactic because gold income is not guaranteed. An item with the traits of multiple items is, in many ways, like having extra item slots; buying extra item slots seems sketchy. Trying to balance multi-items against character resources (maybe carrying one reduces your healing surges or number of item daily powers or requires a feat) seems weird to me, too, though.

-- 77IM

 

[DEFCON 1]

I think the biggest issue you are having is thinking you need actual "guidelines" to follow to create these items. Standardized rules that take into account price, balance, , location, stacking, etc. etc.

The problem is, there are too many variables to try and account for to be able to create a single set of "guidelines" for the creation of multi-property magical items. If you try to do it, you're going to find way that they break.

So for my money... there really is only one solution for you the DM. A multi-property item is designed individually by you... and you playtest the item by yourself in mock combats. Only when you are satisfied that what you've created for a specific player will not break your game, then you can hand it to him/her, making the giving of such item an important part of your story.

And of course, the important thing to remember is that when the player says and asks "Wow, cool! This item is great! Can I get other items that combine properties too? Like how about an 'X' and 'Y' item--" etc. etc. The answer of course is 'No'.

Make these items strictly on a case-by-case basis, and treat these item as they actually are... something special. If you as DM are spending extra time to create, design and playtest these items... your players better damn well treat the items as special. Otherwise, there's no point in wasting your time as DM.

 

[MonkeyKing]

The answer to Cap question is no you cant stack magic item properties on a weapon. Its against RAW.

From AV pg 199 under Enchanting Items.

"Likewise, magic item properties and powers cannot be stacked, so that a character cannot imbue a suit of sylvan armor with the property and power of sunleaf armor as well"

You have to house rule otherwise or do as others have said and make them minor artifacts or something.

 

[77IM]

DEFCON has given me a good idea for a meta-mechanic. Certainly, the DM can do anything he wants, and I've given out multi-trait items under the label of "minor artifact." But any rigid pricing guideline could be abused by players.

So how about a rule similar to the 3.5 "spell research?" Like this:

1. The player describes what sort if item he wants to make (e.g., a flaming frosting double sword).

2. The DM decides on the minimum level and cost-adjustment of the item using whatever system or guidelines he sees fit. (E.g., I'm thinking of a system where the minimum level of a flaming frosting double sword is level 10, for a +2 version, which costs 2x what a normal level 10 item would cost. But it's up to the DM how to arrive at these figures.)

3. The PC then needs to succeed at three Arcana checks (with a DC assigned by the DM, based upon the level and/or cost of the item). Each check takes 8 hours research and design. Failing a check means you wasted your 8 hours, but can keep trying until you get 3 successes. (E.g., under my guidelines, the DC would be 10 + 1/2 level + 2x bonus, or 24 for the +2 flaming frosting double sword.)

4. Once the research is complete (the PC has three successes), the DM tells them whether the item is allowed or not. The DM can forbid the item for any reason but needs to explain to the player what the reason is, so that the player won't make the same mistake when designing his next item. (E.g., a +2 flaming frosting double sword doesn't seem imbalanced compared to just wielding two separate enchanted weapons, so I'd allow it. If the player wanted a +1 version, though, I'd explain that it's not allowed because it is too much better than a +1 flaming double sword for not enough cost.)


What's the point of requiring research and checks? Why not just have the player and DM discuss the item and decide on the level and cost? Mostly, it's to prevent a player from coming to the DM with a list of a dozen multi-trait items. Since each one requires research time, the player will only be able to find out about one or two of them. In an ideal situation the DM will explain to the player ahead of time his balance guidelines so that most item research will be successful.

-- 77IM

 

[MonkeyKing]

Question. How would you handle stacking properties that would give a weapon two diffrent at will powers at the same time?

I image that could become quite broken pretty fast. As a general rule do you think it should be avoided?