D&D 5E Multiclassing discussion

[bogmad]

And what about taking 1 more level in fighter to get action surge?
So for sacrificing 2 caster levels you get heavy armor, all weapons, and the ability to cast 2 spells a round (as an encounter power).
That's a bit of a no brainer I say.

Heavy armor and action surging for spells are maybe too much, I'd agree, but getting all weapons isn't that great if you're only staying at two levels of fighter. At the most you get a d12 +str damage (2d12 with action surge), but after 5 levels of wizard you're casting 2d8 dmg at will with cantrips, and you're waiting two levels to catch up to [a 7th level caster] so the extra weapon damage at least evens out, if not falls behind when you incorporate spell damage.

Also, depending on what kind of game pace you're playing, encounter powers don't mean exactly the same thing as they did in 4e since it takes a full hour instead of five minutes to short rest.

 

[Wulfgar76]

Heavy armor and action surging for spells are maybe too much, I'd agree, but getting all weapons isn't that great if you're only staying at two levels of fighter. At the most you get a d12 +str damage (2d12 with action surge), but after 5 levels of wizard you're casting 2d8 dmg at will with cantrips, and you're waiting two levels to catch up to [a 7th level caster] so the extra weapon damage at least evens out, if not falls behind when you incorporate spell damage.

Dipping 1 in Fighter means your wizard can dump Dex, and and use a shield, which is not only is about a 6 point jump in AC (huge in Next), it also frees up a high stat for Wisdom, Con or another ability score.

So 1 level in fighter = +6 to AC and probably a 16 in another score. Way too good.

Not to mention, for us 2e guys a wizard in full plate is a cringe worthy affront to all that is Wizardly, as we grew up with the image that wizards wore robes and wore armor at the risk of their spells failing.

 

[bogmad]

Dipping 1 in Fighter means your wizard can dump Dex, and and use a shield, which is not only is about a 6 point jump in AC (huge in Next), it also frees up a high stat for Wisdom, Con or another ability score.

So 1 level in fighter = +6 to AC and probably a 16 in another score. Way too good.

Not to mention, for us 2e guys a wizard in full plate is a cringe worthy affront to all that is Wizardly, as we grew up with the image that wizards wore robes and wore armor at the risk of their spells failing.

Yeah, I already conceded full plate might be too much. Also, if he's using a shield he's prevented from having a free hand to add his proficiency bonus with an implement. Of course, that's assuming he's holding a weapon in one hand and a shield in the other. I guess there's some argument for being able to having a free hand with a buckler or small shield, but my call would be a shield interferes with casting unless your other hand is empty/holding an implement.

[addition] I started with 2e as well, but I'm more willing to let a little bit of armor casting in. Full plate with little drawbacks is hard to swallow, but relying on spell failure percentages doesn't seem to be much fun for anyone.

 

[Arduin's]

Should 1st level in fighter give a multi-class character proficiency in so many weapons and armour right from the get go?

Since a 1st level Fighter gets that why wouldn't a multi-class 1st level fighter? A fighter that later takes a level in Wizard gets all that 1st level spell casting ability...

 

[bogmad]

Since a 1st level Fighter gets that why wouldn't a multi-class 1st level fighter? A fighter that later takes a level in Wizard gets all that 1st level spell casting ability...

All that 1st level spell casting ability in 5e is only 2 spells a day, or 3 with arcane recovery. Other than that the only valuable thing you're really getting is two save proficiencies.

[edit] Ok, and cantrips. But those aren't really any better than ranged weapons

 

[Arduin's]

All that 1st level spell casting ability in 5e is only 2 spells a day, or 3 with arcane recovery. Other than that the only valuable thing you're really getting is two save proficiencies.

Right. But, that's not the point. The point is ALL 1st level wizards get the same. And, who is to say how hard it is to learn to even cast the most limited and minor of spells.

 

[EnglishLanguage]

I'd rather have something less extreme, if level by level mutliclassing is a thing, then just allowing to switch classes on level up for keeps sounds fair. If the score requirements are needed for balance, it should be rebalanced (because a raw monk/druid is no doubt way more powerful than a rogue/cleric with negative Wis)

I can't see score requirements being much of a balancing factor though, since they mean the only characters able to multiclass into that class are the ones in the best position to cheese it.

 

[bogmad]

Right. But, that's not the point. The point is ALL 1st level wizards get the same. And, who is to say how hard it is to learn to even cast the mot limited an minor of spells.

That's more of a question for the narrative than game balance. I'm not totally against narrative restrictions, but I think they're more useful according to the campaign and the table you're playing with.

I don't think they're useful for mechanical balancing, which I think is the most important thing to worry about with multiclassing.

 

[Arduin's]

I can't see score requirements being much of a balancing factor though, since they mean the only characters able to multiclass into that class are the ones in the best position to cheese it.

That's why I prefer unique XP charts for classes. If as the GM you have determined that a 10th level Wizard is twice as powerful as a 10th level Fighter, you require 2X the XP to reach that level for the wizard. Self balancing. Since in most games all the PC's get roughly the same XP per session, the Wizard levels much more slowly.

 

[EnglishLanguage]

That's why I prefer unique XP charts for classes. If as the GM you have determined that a 10th level Wizard is twice as powerful as a 10th level Fighter, you require 2X the XP to reach that level for the wizard. Self balancing. Since in most games all the PC's get roughly the same XP per session, the Wizard levels much more slowly.

Arguably.

I prefer levels being equal among classes(ex, a 10th level Fighter is about on par with a 10th level Wizard is about on par with a 10th level Barbarian, etc).