D&D General Multiclassing Shouldn't be Treated as the Default

[MGibster]

That's fair, I'm just not sure how much multiclassing had to do with the decision to make sub-classes at level 3 the standard.

If subclass abilities were front loaded then many players would just dip into multiple classes at 1st level. I suspect that's the primary reason you have to wait until level 3.

 

[The Sigil]

Subclasses to me have always felt a bit like 3e prestige classes. Which is probably why I am confused as to why people want to mix them with multiclassing. It feels like they are already kind of multiclassing into their subclass.

 

[Theory of Games]

Subclasses to me have always felt a bit like 3e prestige classes. Which is probably why I am confused as to why people want to mix them with multiclassing. It feels like they are already kind of multiclassing into their subclass.

Power-Fantasy.

I never understood why some players think dungeon-crawling with 20th-level, multiclassed characters with 10+ magic items is interesting. But, for some having that unstoppable Anime-style character is fun. IME, it's the same players who can't enjoy running low-level characters. They need the Power-Fantasy of being a god-like being among mortals.

 

[James Gasik]

A lot of iconic fantasy characters have a mix of abilities that would be easiest to acquire by being multiclassed. So I think a lot of builds inspired by such end up going down that path, whether it's a good idea or not.

People like to gripe about the powerful multiclass options, but there's flavorful (and very bad) ones as well. You have to ask yourself, is the reason you hate multiclassing Warlock dips or Sorlocks? Would you be alright with someone showing up at your table with a Barbarian/Rogue or Monk/Sorcerer?

 

[TiQuinn]

Power-Fantasy.

I never understood why some players think dungeon-crawling with 20th-level, multiclassed characters with 10+ magic items is interesting. But, for some having that unstoppable Anime-style character is fun. IME, it's the same players who can't enjoy running low-level characters. They need the Power-Fantasy of being a god-like being among mortals.

Or Aragorn. Or Conan. Or Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser.

I mean, it’s so funny how earlier editions of the game were supposed to be based on Sword and Sorcery / Epic Fantasy books but those books always featured highly competent heroes too. Nobody wanted to be Joe Schmoe who got turned to goo by the first troll he came across. They wanted to be the guy that killed the troll. 20th level characters are just a continuation of that regardless of the source of inspiration.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

If subclass abilities were front loaded then many players would just dip into multiple classes at 1st level. I suspect that's the primary reason you have to wait until level 3.

For most classes, their absolute best features are front-loaded in Level 1 and 2. Subclasses features pale in comparison to most Base Class features in the first two levels.

Changing subclasses to Level 3 has almost zero impact on multi-classing. People will still take 1 level Sorcerer dip for Con saving throw proficiency even if they don't get a subclass, people will still take 1 level Cleric for heavy armor proficiency without a subclass, they will still take 1 level Warlock for charisma-based attack modifier without a subclass, you get the idea.

 

[FrozenNorth]

People like to gripe about the powerful multiclass options, but there's flavorful (and very bad) ones as well. You have to ask yourself, is the reason you hate multiclassing Warlock dips or Sorlocks? Would you be alright with someone showing up at your table with a Barbarian/Rogue or Monk/Sorcerer?

Speaking only for myself as DM, multiclass tends to be the worst way to accomplish flavourful characters that don’t fit existing classes. The balance comment goes both ways. Yes, some multiclass characters are too powerful (Warlock dips, Bladesingers with fighter dips for heavy armor). But a multiclass that is super weak (or that only satisfies the class fantasy at level 10) is also pretty unfun to the player.

Better to homebrew the character the player actually wants using an existing class as a chassis. If you want to double down on the nature theme, you could play an Archfey Warlock/Druid, or you could simply ask to play an Archfey Warlock that uses the Druid spell list.

 

[ezo]

For most classes, their absolute best features are front-loaded in Level 1 and 2. Subclasses features pale in comparison to most Base Class features in the first two levels.

I agree completely, but...

Changing subclasses to Level 3 has almost zero impact on multi-classing. People will still take 1 level Sorcerer dip for Con saving throw proficiency even if they don't get a subclass, people will still take 1 level Cleric for heavy armor proficiency without a subclass, they will still take 1 level Warlock for charisma-based attack modifier without a subclass, you get the idea.

They must have changed multiclassing a lot in 2024! Since in 2014, multiclassing into...

sorcerer won't get you Con saving throw proficiency...
cleric won't get you heavy armor proficiency without the right subclass choce...
warlock will only allow you charisma-based attacks on your warlock spells...

 

[Umbran]

But multiclassing is an optional rule. Why build character generation and progression around an optional rule?

Well, I think you are off the mark when you say character generation was "built around" multiclassing.

Let's just have our subclass at first level and if that makes multiclassing too powerful then don't allow that as an option.

Because a lot of us DON'T build the character out in full before play begins. A lot of us have some ideas, but wait to make those choices organically as play progresses. And it is easy to start at level 3. It is very difficult to delay the choice if it is baked into choices before play even begins.

I'm playing a wizard at the moment, and I started with the idea that there were like, four different sublcass options he might take, but I wanted to see how play went before I chose. Heck, I purposely delayed that choice by a level, taking a multiclass dip into rogue to fill out to match his background, rather than to get to some desired future build.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

sorcerer won't get you Con saving throw proficiency...

Sorc1 has always gotten you Con save proficiency. Then you just go on with your actual main caster class.

cleric won't get you heavy armor proficiency without the right subclass choce...

2024 Cleric picks between cantrip+knowledge checks or heavy armor+martial weapons at lv1.

warlock will only allow you charisma-based attacks on your warlock spells...

2024 Warlocks get to pick an invocation at lv1, and Blade Pact is an invocation.