Multiclassing woes

[Diirk]

So I was looking a bit at the warlock, whether playing it as primary or multiclassing into it from something else and I noticed a few things that were pretty annoying.

For starters, the obvious fighter/infernal pact warlock doesn't work very well... because even tho with infernal pact con is the key ability (which synergises well with fighter) and cha is pretty much a dump stat, you still need 13 charisma to multiclass to warlock to begin with. Grr. Requiring stats to multiclass reminds me of 2nd edition. At least with the ranger they give you the option to choose which key stat you need...

Now, multiclassing into warlock just gives you access to the specific pact's at will as a per encounter power, and tells you you can enter into that pact's paragon path. Care to tell me how useful the infernal pact paragon path is with no warlock curse ability ? For that matter, the 12th utility power of Doomsayer paragon path says "You place your warlock's curse upon the target"... only if you multiclassed into it, you don't have one. Does that make the power useless ?

Ironically I think that warlock itself is one of the better choices to multiclass into warlock with (in order to pick up a 2nd pact so you can enter a paragon path different from your primary pact), however this is expressly forbidden.

I'm sure other classes have issues too, these are just the ones that stood out immediately to me.

 

[cdrcjsn]

What are you trying to do?

You state fighter/warlock is an obvious path...but it isn't to me. Is it based on a fictional character somewhere?

If your main goal is a dark defender type of character, then why not Paladin/Warlock?

Yeah, the warlock paragon paths seem impossible to get into unless you're a warlock. But I don't see why a mostly fighter type would want to get into it in the first place. The abilities don't mesh with fighter abilities. If you absolutely want the warlock paragon path...then play a warlock and take fighter or paladin MC feats. The class itself has lots of abilities to get temp hps and you can be a secondary tank.

 

[Starbuck_II]

So I was looking a bit at the warlock, whether playing it as primary or multiclassing into it from something else and I noticed a few things that were pretty annoying.

For starters, the obvious fighter/infernal pact warlock doesn't work very well... because even tho with infernal pact con is the key ability (which synergises well with fighter) and cha is pretty much a dump stat, you still need 13 charisma to multiclass to warlock to begin with. Grr. Requiring stats to multiclass reminds me of 2nd edition. At least with the ranger they give you the option to choose which key stat you need...

Now, multiclassing into warlock just gives you access to the specific pact's at will as a per encounter power, and tells you you can enter into that pact's paragon path. Care to tell me how useful the infernal pact paragon path is with no warlock curse ability ? For that matter, the 12th utility power of Doomsayer paragon path says "You place your warlock's curse upon the target"... only if you multiclassed into it, you don't have one. Does that make the power useless ?

Ironically I think that warlock itself is one of the better choices to multiclass into warlock with (in order to pick up a 2nd pact so you can enter a paragon path different from your primary pact), however this is expressly forbidden.

I'm sure other classes have issues too, these are just the ones that stood out immediately to me.

The Multiclassing initiate feat grants Warlock's curse.

I do'nt understand what you mean by:
" the 12th utility power of Doomsayer paragon path says "You place your warlock's curse upon the target"... only if you multiclassed into it, you don't have one. Does that make the power useless ? "

You can't not have the curse to go into a Warlock Paragon class. The curse is a class feature not a power.

 

[Diirk]

You state fighter/warlock is an obvious path...but it isn't to me. Is it based on a fictional character somewhere?

No, I just thought the synergies stacked up well. As a fighter you'll likely have con as either you're highest or 2nd highest stat, which meshes nicely with infernal pact warlock where con is the key stat. Also, infernal pact warlock directly benefits being a tank, as so many of the powers grant you either temporary hitpoints or actual healing.

Paladin/warlock isn't bad either, but you'd be more likely to enter star or fey pact with that imo. Mind you paladin already has access to healing on its own.

The Multiclassing initiate feat grants Warlock's curse.

I do'nt understand what you mean by:
" the 12th utility power of Doomsayer paragon path says "You place your warlock's curse upon the target"... only if you multiclassed into it, you don't have one. Does that make the power useless ? "

You can't not have the curse to go into a Warlock Paragon class. The curse is a class feature not a power.

The multiclassing initiate feat doesn't grant Warlock's curse. It grants you 1 trained skill, and the at will power of the pact you pick as an encounter power. It also says that you can enter the paragon path of the pact you pick. So if you multiclass into warlock, you have no curse, but can enter the paragon paths anyway.

 

[cdrcjsn]

No, I just thought the synergies stacked up well.

Not as well as cleric or ranger MC though.

Cleric grants more healing. Ranger grants reactionary attacks + movement.

Fighter gets enough healing recovery on its own (many dailies or utility powers allow you to use a healing surge or grant temp HPs).

 

[Zaruthustran]

The Multiclassing initiate feat grants Warlock's curse.

I do'nt understand what you mean by:
" the 12th utility power of Doomsayer paragon path says "You place your warlock's curse upon the target"... only if you multiclassed into it, you don't have one. Does that make the power useless ? "

You can't not have the curse to go into a Warlock Paragon class. The curse is a class feature not a power.

I'm pretty sure you don't get the Warlock Curse when you multi into Warlock. You just get a skill and an at-will attack (as an encounter), and you can pursue that pact's path.

You certainly don't get the class features of a class when you mutli into it.

But anyway: yeah, Paladin / Warlock makes more mechanical sense than Fighter / Warlock. Although if you have a high-Con fighter and scrape together 13 cha, Dire Radiance makes for a nice first-round ranged attack... with the bonus that the target takes damage again when it closes with you.

 

[Ander00]

I may be wrong, but multiclassing seems to me to be the redheaded stepchild of 4E. Sure, unlike in third edition it probably won't break anything, but most of the time while others are getting new things that mesh well with their role, you are spending resources to replace yours with things that are balanced taking into account the class abilities of the second class. They could've least given the multiclassing paragon path *something* special to do with action points as well.

Things you'll also notice in regards to multiclassing into warlock specifically:
With one exception, none of the special magical rods will work for you, because you do not get the curse/pact boon abilities. A pact blade may seem like the obvious alternative, but as a fighter you probably won't want to be wielding a light blade.
Likewise, although you can take the warlock paragon paths, all of them have features that you will not be getting, again because you do not have curse/pact boon.


cheers

 

[Fallen Seraph]

One should look at multiclassing, less for synergy and more for variety and options.

Such as say I have a Rogue, and multiclassed with Warlock. That means I gain a pretty nice ranged ability and the ability to learn some very, very nice Utility Powers (especially Star Pact ones). Thus, my Rogue can turn invisible, make a enemies' attack be reduced to 0, etc.

Not to mention alternative means of dealing out damage.

 

[Zaruthustran]

I may be wrong, but multiclassing seems to me to be the redheaded stepchild of 4E.

I think it's great. 3E eventually got to be too much like GURPS. With all the classes and prestige classes to cherry pick from, you devolved into a kind of build-your-own-class system. In 4E, class is much more important, but you still get to pick from many options within that class.

I like that.

Multiclassing lets you dabble in another class. I've found that multiclassing into warlord or cleric is almost always a good use of a feat, since it gets the party another minor-action surge in combat, as well as giving breadth to your character by adding a skill.

Things you'll also notice in regards to multiclassing into warlock specifically:
With one exception, none of the special magical rods will work for you, because you do not get the curse/pact boon abilities. A pact blade may seem like the obvious alternative, but as a fighter you probably won't want to be wielding a light blade.
Likewise, although you can take the warlock paragon paths, all of them have features that you will not be getting, again because you do not have curse/pact boon.
cheers

Well, yeah, not all classes combos will work.

 

[Samurai]

Here's the Warlock solution I came up with:

• Pact Initiate (Multiclass Warlock) – Many of the Warlock’s abilities rely upon the Warlock’s Curse to function. Therefore, a Pact Initiate must make a choice upon taking this feat: He may either gain the standard Warlock’s Curse as an Encounter power (which includes the bonus damage) instead of the Pact Power, or he may take the Pact Power as stated in the feat and gain a weakened form of the Warlock’s Curse as an Encounter power, called Warlock’s Mark. The Warlock’s Mark requires a Minor Action, and does not provide any additional damage, but it will trigger other Warlock abilities the same as a Warlock’s Curse.

Also, upon consideration, I've decided to include the 3 power swap feats for free when someone takes a Multiclass feat, because a feat + a power for a power is a lousy deal. So:

• Class Specific Feats – Each of these feats now include the 3 Power Swap feats for free. So, in addition to the abilities gained by taking the multiclass feat, at 4th level you may swap 1 Encounter power, at 8th level you may swap 1 Utility power, and at 10th level you may swap 1 Daily Attack power.


Finally, the Paragon Path Multiclassing needed a significant boost in order to make it even with other Paragon Paths, so I made these changes:

Paragon Multiclassing – The at will power gained at 11th level is an additional power, it does not replace one of your at will powers. Also, you either gain Skill Training in a second skill from the class list, or Skill Focus in the skill you already received Training in when you took the initial multiclass feat. At 16th level, the class feature they gained with their initial multiclassing feat improves to its standard frequency for that class, rather than the reduced frequency stated in those feats.