D&D 5E Adapting the Warlock Chassis for other Classes

The reason that warlocks need to exist in a nutshell.

I know that for a lot of players, that spell "pinch" is awkward and annoying. But for myself (and I think some other tactically minded players), that pinch feels good. Having to make a decision to cast something right now, and know that if I'm wrong, I don't have other spell slots, is a thrill. It's actual consequences and risk.

With other casters, even half-casters at higher levels, it's pretty rare to actually scrape the bottom of your spell reserve. Maybe it should be (6-8 encounters, blah blah blah), but warlocks are the only class that really feels the weight of spell restrictions pretty much every encounter.
i wonder how much more the fullcasters would ever actually reach that bottom of the barrel point if say, for after 2nd (character) level you reduced the number of slots they get per (spell) level by one (to a minimum of still having 1 slot) (so at 7th level where you currently have 4, 3, 3, 1, it becomes 3, 2, 2, 1).
 
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Ok, there is a lot here, but it's fruitless. I have no idea why when I continue to post my personal observation, people seem to feel it is necessary to challenge it. IT IS AN OPINION AND PERSONAL PREFERENCE, folks. You aren't going to "convince" me or anything. It nearly always begins with a "hey that isn't my experience" and eventually escalates to a insanely-detailed multi-reply post...

And there is no call to "dispute it" for the value of others in the thread, because frankly, from the beginning, it is my experience, preference, or whatever.
When someone has a problem with things there are a number of possibilities. Of which one is that it is inherently a property of what you are trying to use and another is that you have a skill issue and are doing the equivalent of hitting your thumb with a hammer and then saying that using a hammer is painful.

You 100% have a skill issue. If you didn't you wouldn't have posted some of what you have. You might also not mesh with the warlock, but having only ever played them badly (and all the trap options are a genuine issue with the class) you don't actually have experience of either playing or seeing played a warlock the way they are supposed to be played. Just of doing the metaphorical equivalent of hitting your thumb with a hammer then deciding that because of that you prefer wood glue to nails. If you play a sorcerer as a front line tank you'll find it a terrible class, but that's not the fault of the sorcerer.

So the question is why you are posting about how warlocks are bad or hammers are a danger to thumbs? Because warlocks don't have to be bad and hammers don't have to be a danger to thumbs if used properly. If it is to exchange information and increase your understanding then you should be glad there are better ways and be interested in them. If it's to warn bystanders about the danger of hitting thumbs then the bystanders both deserve to know that there is a problem there and how it can be avoided with better technique.

This isn't "disputing" your experience. It's disputing that your experiences are necessary for everyone to have and pointing out to people including you how to avoid experiences like that.
 

I mean, I think it’s an interesting topic, but it doesn’t sound like you’re in the right headspace for it. Totally fine.
I agree it is an interesting topic, but what is their really to discuss? I find the "spell slot pinch" annoying and restrictive, see players want more rests (you've said yourself you impost a mandatory 2-short rests per long rest via a 5-min time period), etc. You enjoy the challenge as you see it, which is good for you.

So, if you have something to discuss about it without rehashing points over and over, I'm all for it. (Although I don't know if this is the right thread for it...).
 

When someone has a problem with things there are a number of possibilities. Of which one is that it is inherently a property of what you are trying to use and another is that you have a skill issue and are doing the equivalent of hitting your thumb with a hammer and then saying that using a hammer is painful.

You 100% have a skill issue. If you didn't you wouldn't have posted some of what you have. You might also not mesh with the warlock, but having only ever played them badly (and all the trap options are a genuine issue with the class) you don't actually have experience of either playing or seeing played a warlock the way they are supposed to be played. Just of doing the metaphorical equivalent of hitting your thumb with a hammer then deciding that because of that you prefer wood glue to nails. If you play a sorcerer as a front line tank you'll find it a terrible class, but that's not the fault of the sorcerer.

So the question is why you are posting about how warlocks are bad or hammers are a danger to thumbs? Because warlocks don't have to be bad and hammers don't have to be a danger to thumbs if used properly. If it is to exchange information and increase your understanding then you should be glad there are better ways and be interested in them. If it's to warn bystanders about the danger of hitting thumbs then the bystanders both deserve to know that there is a problem there and how it can be avoided with better technique.
I know you mean well, but this sort of comes off a bit insulting. You're basically claiming that my issues with the class are due to my not knowing how to "play it properly". There is no right or wrong way to play anything in this game.

This isn't "disputing" your experience. It's disputing that your experiences are necessary for everyone to have and pointing out to people including you how to avoid experiences like that.
I never claimed my epxeriences are "necessary for everyone to have", or even disputed that everyone else has them. I've said it was my experiences (which was thankfully relieved via multiclassing with another full-caster class), and the experiences of people I've played with.
 

i wonder how much more the fullcasters would ever actually reach that bottom of the barrel point if say, for after 2nd (character) level you reduced the number of slots they get per level by one (to a minimum of still having 1 slot) (so at 7th level where you currently have 4, 3, 3, 1, it becomes 3, 2, 2, 1).
I see it often enough as it is LOL, I would hate for it to be even fewer spell slots. :eek:
 

What 'pinch' exists with the warlock?

Invocations mean you have infinite fun spells, the Correct Choice in combat (Eldritch Blast) and a couple emergency buttons (literally everything else).
 

I know you mean well, but this sort of comes off a bit insulting. You're basically claiming that my issues with the class are due to my not knowing how to "play it properly". There is no right or wrong way to play anything in this game.
Ok. Try and play an Eldritch Knight as an archmage, a paladin as primarily an archer, or a melee sorcerer. You can technically do all of these but you are going to have a bad time because that's not how those classes work.

And it is a problem with the warlock that (a) the playstyle is subtler than those examples and (b) there are a lot of trap options.
 

I see it often enough as it is LOL, I would hate for it to be even fewer spell slots. :eek:
Okay sure, but can I assume you’re not saying that because you think they ‘genuinely need’ those slots to be properly balanced, but just because having and using all that magic feels good.
 

Okay sure, but can I assume you’re not saying that because you think they ‘genuinely need’ those slots to be properly balanced, but just because having and using all that magic feels good.
Oh, certainly not!

I'm not a fan of spamming cantrips, so I prefer a few more spell slots to make the game feel more magical to me. Also, we often go several encounters without getting a long rest in, so scraping the bottom of the "spell-slot barrel", while not a common occurance, happens enough for us.

FWIW, like the people I play with we prefer gritty games, so many times we play with 8-hour "short rests" and 24-hour "long rests". So, you can understand why we don't get spell slots "recharged" as much in the common way.

For a typical 5E game, I don't think a few "fewer" slot would hurt anything.
 

FWIW, like the people I play with we prefer gritty games, so many times we play with 8-hour "short rests" and 24-hour "long rests". So, you can understand why we don't get spell slots "recharged" as much in the common way.
I'm a big fan of the gritty rest variant; when I ran it, it was 8 hour short rests, and 48 hr long rests (that must be done in a relatively safe space). One of the best ways to actually have a 6-8 encounter "adventuring day" if you're doing traveling or something else that isn't straight up site exploration.
 

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