Multiple Ability Dependance and other tall tales

[Crothian]

I would agree.

I think the paladin would not want a low score (under 10) in those three key abilities I mentioned.

And I don't see that as MAD. Heck, most characters I see have at most a single score below 10.

 

[Nightfall]

I understand that they don't have to be front liners. But to use the smite evil ability, they need to hit what they're trying to smite. And heal and protect.

That's what investing in enhancement bonuses are for. Or at least getting the buffs for him instead of the fighter/front liner.

*thinks again about his Ranger5/Tempest5/Dervish10 build...*

 

[Mystery Man]

And I don't see that as MAD. Heck, most characters I see have at most a single score below 10.

True, but do you notice its almost always in the ability they don't need? If I'm building a mage, and my 2 stats left to place are a 14 and an 8 which one to do you think I'm going to put into INT? Of course a wizard is a really bad example of a MAD character.

 

[Rystil Arden]

At that level you can easily have two items that boost those two attributes plus run the possibility of a wish or two as well. So, there is plenty of ways to make that non 15 score high enough. And if the character is worried about DCs they can take feats to improve them.

Well, it's true that they might have a Wish if they're lucky, but having spells that you can only cast because of your items is really not a good position (If he was a part sorcerer theurge, for instance, and he was barely on the cusp of casting his spells, he could be Ego Whipped into uselessness, whether or not he made his Will save, and that's only a 2nd-level spell), plus when the poor guy levels up some more, he may not be able to cast his next few spells.

 

[Crothian]

True, but do you notice its almost always in the ability they don't need? If I'm building a mage, and my 2 stats left to place are a 14 and an 8 which one to do you think I'm going to put into INT? Of course a wizard is a really bad example of a MAD character.

ya, the stupid idea of the dump stat. That's another thing the game really needs to get rid of.

 

[Crothian]

Well, it's true that they might have a Wish if they're lucky, but having spells that you can only cast because of your items is really not a good position (If he was a part sorcerer theurge, for instance, and he was barely on the cusp of casting his spells, he could be Ego Whipped into uselessness, whether or not he made his Will save, and that's only a 2nd-level spell), plus when the poor guy levels up some more, he may not be able to cast his next few spells.

All characters have weakness though. this one ego whip, the fighter and his will saves, etc. Prestige classes though are options and might require a little more then the standard core classes. Heck, I actually like that prestige classes would have the need for higher stats.

 

[Nightfall]

Nah dump stats are fine. It's mediocre stats that suck.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Instead of dependancy, how about just useful? A wizard can work everything toward one stat and suffer not nearly as much (and gain more) than a paladin, for example. In some cases, the idea of MAD seems to be a balancing factor, like the favored soul, though I can't understand why it uses two casting stats (I HRed it to just one).

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Bah. If you're playing core rules and you want to be a healer and protector of the spellcasters, play a cleric. If you're playing a paladin, you can have all the charisma and wisdom you want, but other than expending all of your lay on hands at once (which is typically somewhere around a good roll on a top tier healing spell from an equal level cleric... until the cleric gets the heal spell and then it's all over for the paladin until high levels when the cleric is casting mass heal), a paladin isn't remotely close to a cleric--even a much lower level cleric--in healing ability.

Sure, you can play a paladin as a healer, but you'll be a weak healer compared to healers built using the class the core rules designed for it. You can play a fighter as a diplomat too but that doesn't mean that effective fighters don't have to be combat focussed characters. If they're not, they've no business in the fighter class. It's the same with paladins. If they're not going to smite evil, they've no business taking the class.

I know a couple paladins that weren't the front liners. They just served as healers and protecters of the spellcasters. Thus being up close and being able to hit very well wasn't their job.

 

[Rystil Arden]

All characters have weakness though. this one ego whip, the fighter and his will saves, etc. Prestige classes though are options and might require a little more then the standard core classes. Heck, I actually like that prestige classes would have the need for higher stats.

Right, but if the fighter makes his Will save, then he is fine. If the Sorcerer Theurge makes his Will save against Ego Whip, he may still have lost every one of his sorcerer spells, and he has certainly lost all the useful ones.