Multiple Saves for the Same Effect

[KarinsDad]

Overlapping Durations: If a target is affected by multiple powers that have the same effect but end at different times, the effect with the most time remaining applies.

"Save Ends" is one of the listed durations. So if you're hit with the same (save ends) effect multiple times, there is no overlap in duration. One save clears you.

Odd, that rule states the opposite.

If one save ends on round one and one save ends on round two, "the effect with the most time remaining (two rounds, not one) applies".

Nowhere in that rule does it state that the effect with the least amount of time remaining (save on round one) applies.

The same type of duration does not imply stopping at the same time.

 

[jdcash]

The save is against the condition or the damage, NOT the hit itself. The condition is resolved by using the ONE that has the longest duration and similarly the damage is resolved by using the ONE with the highest amount. ONE save for ONE condition or ONE amount of ongoing damage.

 

[mach1.9pants]

You learn something every day

 

[Felon]

Odd, that rule states the opposite.

If one save ends on round one and one save ends on round two, "the effect with the most time remaining (two rounds, not one) applies".

Nowhere in that rule does it state that the effect with the least amount of time remaining (save on round one) applies.

The same type of duration does not imply stopping at the same time.

That's the way it reads to me as well...unfortunately.

 

[Felon]

The save is against the condition or the damage, NOT the hit itself. The condition is resolved by using the ONE that has the longest duration and similarly the damage is resolved by using the ONE with the highest amount. ONE save for ONE condition or ONE amount of ongoing damage.

Sounds nice, and I love the way you kept capitalizing the word "one" for emphasis, but...where's the rule?

 

[CapnZapp]

but...where's the rule?

Surely you mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug75diEyiA0?

 

[jdcash]

Sounds nice, and I love the way you kept capitalizing the word "one" for emphasis, but...where's the rule?

p278 of PHB

Under the Ongoing Damage section is says that you make a saving throw against ongoing damage and under the same type of ongoing damage it says that only the highest amount.

So at this point there is only one ongoing damage and a save ends it.

Under overlapping durations it says that a target affected by multiple powers that have the same affect but end at different times, only the longest applies.

So, in the same vein, with only one effect or condition applying then it should only require one save to overcome it.

I tried to take one rule at a time and not read them altogether, maybe this approach is incorrect (and if my wife was making the counter argument it would be)

Additionally (and this is completely my interpretation) almost every bonus, modifier, etc. of the same type does not stack in 4e, so this would also be consistent with that.

 

[isd]

Overlapping Durations: If a target is affected by
multiple powers that have the same effect but end
at different times, the effect with the most time
remaining applies.

"Save Ends" is one of the listed durations. So if you're hit with the same (save ends) effect multiple times, there is no overlap in duration. One save clears you.

The save is against the condition or the damage, NOT the hit itself. The condition is resolved by using the ONE that has the longest duration and similarly the damage is resolved by using the ONE with the highest amount. ONE save for ONE condition or ONE amount of ongoing damage.

I Agree.

 

[KarinsDad]

Sounds nice, and I love the way you kept capitalizing the word "one" for emphasis, but...where's the rule?

Page 278

If effects deal ongoing damage of the same type, or if the damage has no type, only the higher number applies.

This does not state that there is only one effect is on the target, it states that only one number of the multiple effects applies.

So, all of the effects are still there, only one of them applies for damage.

Same page:

Overlapping Durations: If a target is affected by multiple powers that have the same effect but end at different times, the effect with the most time remaining applies.

How does one determine the duration of an effect with a save? One rolls a saving throw.

Hence, one rolls a saving throw for each of the multiple effects that are still in existence to determine which effect lasts the longest.


The opposing POV is predicated on the notion that there is only one effect in existence. But, the ongoing damage rule does not state that. For that to be true, there would need to be a rule that states that the other effects vanish.

 

[Caliban]

I agree with James McMurray.