D&D 5E (2014) MUSING: An Evergreen, static Fifth Edition...

[aramis erak]

Well let's see. The starter set (presuming you mean Basic) is just a subset of the three books, for which there is no "at least" nor even any indication that there will be more; t

The Starter set is Last Mine of Phandelver - it's got player's basic rules, enough monsters to play, pregens...

 

[delericho]

No, you're not.

Your post originally consisted of a picture of the wall of books and a dismissive comment. You later edited it, but it's not strawmanning to complain about actual behaviour.

 

[delericho]

Yeah, I'm not caught up with the adventures yet. 12 months, 6 hardcover books, a starter set, and a couple of DM screens. I honestly think that's perfectly fine - it's a major item every 2 months or less, on average.

That's a case where the statistics are skewing the picture: what we have is a fairly rapid release of the core rulebooks and supporting adventures and then a significant slow-down - such that in the first six months of 2015 we've had one hardback book and in the next six months of 2015 we're almost certainly getting one more hardback book.

It's not, on average, one major product every 2 months (or else I wouldn't be involved in this conversation), it's an initial flood followed by one major product every 6 months.

 

[Remathilis]

That's a case where the statistics are skewing the picture: what we have is a fairly rapid release of the core rulebooks and supporting adventures and then a significant slow-down - such that in the first six months of 2015 we've had one hardback book and in the next six months of 2015 we're almost certainly getting one more hardback book.

It's not, on average, one major product every 2 months (or else I wouldn't be involved in this conversation), it's an initial flood followed by one major product every 6 months.

Products Released in 2014
Starter Set (July)
Player's Handbook (August)
Hoard of the Dragon Queen (August)
Monster Manual (September)
Rise of Tiamat (November)
Dungeon Master's Guide (December)

Products Released in 2015
Dungeon Master's Screen (January)
Princes of the Apocalypse (April)
Out of the Abyss (September)

 

[delericho]

Products Released in 2014
Starter Set (July)
Player's Handbook (August)
Hoard of the Dragon Queen (August)
Monster Manual (September)
Rise of Tiamat (November)
Dungeon Master's Guide (December)

Products Released in 2015
Dungeon Master's Screen (January)
Princes of the Apocalypse (April)
Out of the Abyss (September)

Yes, I know. As I said, we have the initial flurry of releases (the core rulebooks, starter set, and the supporting adventures), and then in 2015 we have two major releases. And no, I don't count the screen as a "major" release.

I don't get why that's even a controversial statement - WotC have indicated they're aiming for roughly two "storylines" each year, and they've also indicated they'll be doing few if any supplements (the exact wording was along the lines of using the boardgame model).

But it means that "on average one hardback every 2 months" is inaccurate - right now we have 6 hardbacks in 12 months, but by the end of the year we're looking at 7 hardbacks in 18 months. And that's not a criticism - it's just the way the statistics work out.

 

[Staffan]

You know I can't confirm it, but this FEELS like more stuff than we had in the first year of 3.0e. I wonder if others can confirm or deny that?

The first year of D&D 3.0 had (only counting Wizards of the Coast releases, August 2000 to July 2001):
D&D Adventure Game
PHB
DMG
MM
Psionics Handbook
Hero Builder's Guidebook
Sword & Fist
Defenders of the Faith
Tome & Blood
Sunless Citadel
Forge of Fury
Speaker in Dreams
Standing Stone
Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil
Heart of Nightfang Spire
D&D Gazetteer
Living Greyhawk Gazetteer
Diablo II: Diablerie
Diablo II: To Hell and Back
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
Monsters of Faerûn
Pool of Radiance: Attack on Myth Drannor
Into the Dragon's Lair
12 issues of Dragon
6 issues of Dungeon

So far, 5e has:

Starter Set
PHB
DMG
MM
Hoard of the Dragon Queen
Rise of Tiamat
Princes of the Apocalypse
2 issues of Dragon+

I'm not counting accessories like DM Screens or character sheets on either side. Neither am I counting online-only things - sure, Elemental Evil Player's Guide was great, and UA is OK, but there was way more online support back in 2000, such as an adventure per month, plenty of flavorful articles about stuff, random maps, and so on.

So no, at this point there is significantly less game support than there was a year into 3e. At this point in 3e, we had not one, but two settings (maybe three - I don't recall if the Diablo II stuff had any setting material in it), one significant rule expansion, numerous smaller adventures - some completely stand-alone, and some with the potential to string together, one mega-adventure, one monster book, plus lots of article and adventure support via the magazines.

Now, you might argue that this much stuff was bad for the game, and I probably wouldn't object too strenuously (particularly about the splatbooks). But claiming that there's more stuff available now than a year into 3e? No, that's just wrong. The 3e page count is probably 3-4 times that of 5e so far, and that's before counting the magazines.

If it's just available to people playing organized play (which is open to anyone who wants to join), it doesn't count as content?

Adventurer's League doesn't count, because it's not publicly available (plus, I'm certain Living Greyhawk offered comparable adventures back then). It's only available in certain stores or at public events (like conventions) - and Sweden doesn't have a single store that does Adventurer's League.

 

[Remathilis]

Yes, I know. As I said, we have the initial flurry of releases (the core rulebooks, starter set, and the supporting adventures), and then in 2015 we have two major releases. And no, I don't count the screen as a "major" release.

I don't get why that's even a controversial statement - WotC have indicated they're aiming for roughly two "storylines" each year, and they've also indicated they'll be doing few if any supplements (the exact wording was along the lines of using the boardgame model).

But it means that "on average one hardback every 2 months" is inaccurate - right now we have 6 hardbacks in 12 months, but by the end of the year we're looking at 7 hardbacks in 18 months. And that's not a criticism - it's just the way the statistics work out.

I wasn't disagreeing, just reorganizting your info in a chronological format.

 

[delericho]

I wasn't disagreeing, just reorganizting your info in a chronological format.

Ah, I see. Thanks!

 

[Mistwell]

Your post originally consisted of a picture of the wall of books and a dismissive comment. You later edited it, but it's not strawmanning to complain about actual behaviour.

I had two posts, and the one we were going off of had nothing to do with the wall of books. The wall of books picture was not even directed to you. My reply to you is, "In the first year we will have (at least) three core books, a starter set, three hardback huge adventures, free player expansions for the three hardback adventures, many UA articles with experimental rules, Dragon+, a ton of adventure material and support for Adventurer's League, and a DMs screen. That's not counting things like Fantasy Grounds, the video game announcements, etc.. along with tons of third party material. That's a middle ground."

How is that not a middle ground? Respond to what I said, not the strawman.

 

[Remathilis]

"In the first year we will have (at least) three core books,

The backbone of the whole game.

a starter set,

A good short module with bonus abridged rulebook. Good.

three hardback huge adventures,

Two of which complete the same series; its hard to run Rise of Tiamat without Hoard, so effectively its one AP over two books. So two complete APs.

free player expansions for the three hardback adventures,

BZZZT! There is an Elemental Evil Player's Guide, but no player Expansions for Tyranny or Rage (yet, if any). One.

many UA articles with experimental rules,

Five. And as you said, experimental and unusable in AL

Dragon+,

Puff pieces pimping other products. Barely content.

a ton of adventure material and support for Adventurer's League,

Good if you have a FLGS and like AL. Unless you resort to torrenting though, most of us won't ever see it.

and a DMs screen.

Three technically. Maybe you mixed the DM screens and Player Expansions up?

That's not counting things like Fantasy Grounds,

Licensed, nothing to do with WotC or the Tabletop Game.

the video game announcements, etc..

Licensed, nothing to do with WotC or the Tabletop Game.

along with tons of third party material.

Really, WotC is supporting the game by letting other people use the OGL to make stuff for it?

That's a middle ground."

That is the core rules, two APs, a PDF remnant of a cancelled/Unannounced splatbook, a bunch of accessories, a bunch of licensed electronic product, and some playtest documents. By that logic, WotC achieved the middle ground in 2013 when they were giving us regular playtest packets, Legends & Lore articles, premium reprint books and the Sundering Modules.