D&D 5E My biggest gripe with 5e design

[Maxperson]

So to you being heroic means having lucky dice?

So I just said that was wrong. If you don't know what heroism is, you can ask and we can try to help you understand it, rather than you doubling down on something you don't get.

 

[jasper]

Permanent ghost aging is actually one of the rare exceptions that did make it in. If you fail your save by 5 or more, it's 10-40 years of aging, and you need a greater restoration within 24 hours to fix it. On a CR 4 creature.

And there is no max age in which you die. No system shock survival roll in which if you failed your heart gives out due to the rapid aging. My first AL PC is now 19 but looks like he is 40 due to missing a save. So AGING ATTACK AIN'T NOTHING!

 

[Maxperson]

Umm, what? Fighters in both editions got d10 HP/level. True, at 10th, you'd drop back a bit, but, if you look at what I said, I did specify NINTH level. 1e fighters got to roll 8d6 to determine their Con score, so, 18's were pretty common. Oh, right, we're going to cherry pick rules even more and insist that no one used Unearthed Arcana.

Even though in 1e every rule was technically optional, the 1e UA was filled with rules that were billed as optional. I encountered 0 DMs who allowed those ridiculous numbers of dice to be used on stats.

Your claim implies that players could just choose to use UA rules. They couldn't. Since the UA as optional, you cannot make the claim that, "1e fighters got to roll 8d6 to determine their Con score." They didn't. The DM had to specifically allow it or it wasn't a part of the 1e rules available for players, and only a few DMs allowed that UA stat rolling system to be used.

In 1e fighters got to roll 4d6-L for Con just like everyone else.

 

[jasper]

Bah, back in my day ..ecause nothing says "monster" like a mimic disguised an ottoman. That's right, even the furniture tried to kill you!

Wait, where was I?

Just shut the beep up, and come get me out this lazy boy, I can't get to the handle to put in the upright position. Back then I broke the furniture. Now the furniture is trying to kill be. And turn back to my CBS Saturday morning cartoons. I want to watch the D&D cartoon.

 

[Oofta]

So I just said that was wrong. If you don't know what heroism is, you can ask and we can try to help you understand it, rather than you doubling down on something you don't get.

So rather than say "no it's not", what do you consider heroic?

Because I'm confused. I don't think randomly living or dying by a single roll of the dice is heroic. But that's what it frequently came down to in previous editions.

 

[Arnwolf666]

Even though in 1e every rule was technically optional, the 1e UA was filled with rules that were billed as optional. I encountered 0 DMs who allowed those ridiculous numbers of dice to be used on stats.

Your claim implies that players could just choose to use UA rules. They couldn't. Since the UA as optional, you cannot make the claim that, "1e fighters got to roll 8d6 to determine their Con score." They didn't. The DM had to specifically allow it or it wasn't a part of the 1e rules available for players, and only a few DMs allowed that UA stat rolling system to be used.

In 1e fighters got to roll 4d6-L for Con just like everyone else.

We tried the option UA method once and found it to not work well. Way too powerful. Really ad&d is balanced without percentile strength. If you had percentile strength you were a badass.

 

[Maxperson]

So rather than say "no it's not", what do you consider heroic?

Because I'm confused. I don't think randomly living or dying by a single roll of the dice is heroic. But that's what it frequently came down to in previous editions.

Well, no. It rarely did. Living or dying came down to the die roll, but heroism isn't measured by that. Heroism is measured by the RISK of death, not the act of living or dying to the die roll.

In real life, it's heroic for someone to run into a burning building to rescue someone. He risks being killed by fire, smoke or weakened portions of the building. He may never actually get burned, come close being overcome by the smoke, or encounter a weak part of the house. It's the risk he's taking that determines the heroism. D&D is like that. The PC may never even have to make that roll, but if he's risking death, he can be heroic. If the risk of death is lowered or virtually removed, so too is the heroism.

 

[Maxperson]

We tried the option UA method once and found it to not work well. Way too powerful. Really ad&d is balanced without percentile strength. If you had percentile strength you were a badass.

We had 4 guys that rotated DMing, including myself. None of us allowed it. I know I tested it a few times to see how it would work out, just in case it was better in practice than it appeared to be. It wasn't. I found it to be way too powerful as well. And "too powerful" was also the reason given by the other DMs.

 

[Oofta]

Well, no. It rarely did. Living or dying came down to the die roll, but heroism isn't measured by that. Heroism is measured by the RISK of death, not the act of living or dying to the die roll.

In real life, it's heroic for someone to run into a burning building to rescue someone. He risks being killed by fire, smoke or weakened portions of the building. He may never actually get burned, come close being overcome by the smoke, or encounter a weak part of the house. It's the risk he's taking that determines the heroism. D&D is like that. The PC may never even have to make that roll, but if he's risking death, he can be heroic. If the risk of death is lowered or virtually removed, so too is the heroism.

I was stating was that save or die never made me feel like my PC was being heroic. What level of risk any given campaign has should be up to the group.

 

[Maxperson]

I was stating was that save or die never made me feel like my PC was being heroic.

As has been shown to you repeatedly, 1e's danger was far more than save or die. That was actually only a small part of the danger. Most of my characters never got to a level where save or die showed up.

What level of risk any given campaign has should be up to the group.

This is true. If you reduce the risk, the reduction also reduces heroism, though.