My 'Boys were Alive and Kicking - SD is out - GB down - NY for the win!!!

[Crothian]

All of those would be with Brady at the helm- definitely a contender for the title of a "Dynasty" team, and consideration for "Greatest Ever."

Consideration for second greatest team ever. No one is ever going to go to 10 straight championship games and win seven of them like Otto Graham's Browns did.

 

[Goldmoon]

What's to disagree about?

The NFL said they found no evidence the Pats had taped anything in the past. Period. End of story. So I guess you could argue that the NFL is lying about that but then I would go to back to my "sour grapes" statement.

Thats because they orderd the Patcheats to turn over all videos. Only an idiot actually believes they complied and gave up all their video tapes.

 

[GlassJaw]

Thats because they orderd the Patcheats to turn over all videos. Only an idiot actually believes they complied and gave up all their video tapes.

Then I guess the commissioner of the NFL is an idiot then.

I can't wait for all the delicious wine you guys will make with all of your sour grapes.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Then I guess the commissioner of the NFL is an idiot then.

I can't wait for all the delicious wine you guys will make with all of your sour grapes.

Its not sour grapes to say they cheated and it taints their record.

Its the truth.

You can pass over it all you want, but its a fact that they cheated. Whether it actually changed the outcome of a game or not doesn't matter...they cheated. Cheating is cheating. Why that's okay to ignore is beyond me.

Look, I'm not saying the Pats aren't good. Saying that is stupid, because they obviously ARE a great team. But that doesn't negate the fact that they cheated. You can't just say "Oh, they would have won anyway so its okay." because its not okay. It DOES taint their record, because they DID cheat. Cheating is against the rules. No matter the punishment they received, they still cheated.

The worst part about it, especially for the Pats, is they didn't need to. They're a good enough team not to need to cheat like they did, or at all. But they did. And that will always be there, tainting this season, and previous seasons now because people will always wonder.

 

[Umbran]

Thats because they orderd the Patcheats to turn over all videos. Only an idiot actually believes they complied and gave up all their video tapes.

Let me make this simple - don't call people here idiots.

Really, everyone, it is that simple - don't insult people. It isn't all that hard. If you find you really cannot discuss the topic without belittling the intelligence of others, or otherwise trying to make them seem less than you, then I'll have to ask you to not discuss it at all.

 

[jaerdaph]

Its not sour grapes to say they cheated and it taints their record.

Its the truth.

And QFT!

The Pats cheated and got caught. Even if they do go all the way, their record this year will ALWAYS be tainted by that.

It may be the Pat's Super Bowl party, but it's at Barry Bond's house.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

The Pats cheated and got caught. Even if they do go all the way, their record this year will ALWAYS be tainted by that.

I doubt it. I don't think it's going to be the asterisk some folks hope it is, at all.

In fact I think most folks realize it's a pretty minor and petty infraction that has absolutely no bearing on the team's achievements this season (or any other).

In fact I'll go a step further, and suggest that folks who bring up the taping incident when other folks talk about the record-breaking season of Brady, Moss, and the Patriots as a team are going to marginalize themselves and look either wonky or silly, because the incident is irrelevant. It casts absolutely no doubt, other than an arcane procedural one.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I doubt it. I don't think it's going to be the asterisk some folks hope it is, at all.

I think you're exactly right, and that bothers me.

Not because I hate the Patriots...I don't. Pretty neutral on them, honestly.

But because it essentially means that cheating is okay. Now I don't care if its minor or any of that, its still cheating. It just feels wrong to me that we can accept it, or just blow it off with a 'oh, it had no bearing on the game', 'they were going to win anyway', or a 'it was minor'.

Are the days gone when cheating was bad, no matter how small it was?

 

[GlassJaw]

Are the days gone when cheating was bad, no matter how small it was?

If the cheating affects the outcome of games, it's the bad kind. Spygate was akin to jaywalking. Technically against the law but who cares?

Steroids, gambling on games in which you coach or play in, etc, have the potential to have a major effect on the outcome of games.

As Wulf mentioned, it's pretty much common knowledge that what the Patriots (which was against the rules) didn't give them any kind of competitive advantage.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Are the days gone when cheating was bad, no matter how small it was?

You keep coming back to this, because that's how you want to frame the question, but unfortunately that's not the situation.

It was cheating because of where and how it was done.

There is already an acceptance of opposition research in the league; and that acceptance is partially based on the fact that that kind of research is worth very little, anyway.

To use a dramatically hyperbolic example, it would be as if the NFL banned the use of black laces with white shoes, someone being punished for an infraction, and then afterwards saying, "Are the days gone when cheating was bad, no matter how small it was?"