D&D 3E/3.5 My DM wants to nerf 3.5 Psionics, help me convince him otherwise :)

[Aust Diamondew]

Even those who on these boards think psionics is more powerful than standard magic classes would proably admit that you're DM is going WAY off the deep end. I might see a small reduction in powerpoints and maybe changing around the way a few powers scale. But even then nothin like what he's doing.

 

[DreamChaser]

Thanks much for the detailed explanation! I actually took your response and e-mailed it to him. I know he's going to argue the point about grappling and the availability of spells for wizards. He's made it difficult for wizards to obtain spells, and I know he's going to bring up that fact when compairing Wizards to Psions, stating that Psions are more powerful than Wizards because it's reasonably difficult for Wizards to obtain new spells.

support@exilera.com

If he has decided to change a core class, he can hardly complain when the other classes don't equal out in power.

I'm currently playing a psion in a game--it is the first psion in any game the DM has run and it is 3.5. My character is a shaper and has all of the metacreativity powers of the levels I can take. My DM didn't require it but I chose to follow the theme of the more specialized class. Perhaps you could offer that as a limitation to avoid the "jack-of-all-trades" fear.

In practice, I haven't noticed myself outclassing any other character. I can do some damage in battle but I'm hardly overshadowing the wizard or cleric. The fighters are still outdoing me long run with their weapon attacks.

Aside from anything else, as a DM and a player, I have to say that there is no point in trying to modify rules that you have no practical understanding of. It takes time to get a feel for how psionics work in practice, just like any other part of the game. Until you have played with the rules, they might look overpowered. This is an illusion created by the versatility of power points.

The trade of power points is that nothing is free: no scaling, no metamagic with using psionic focus. You can make your 1st level power as potent in damage as your 9th level power but the DC may or may not change.

All in all I like it...if I had to play psionics the way your DM is planning, I would simply never play them.

DC

 

[Thotas]

If I were you? Simple. I'd join the hunt. If psions are hunted down in his world, my next character would be a bounty hunter looking for psions. Since the psis in his world are so horribly nerfed, they are a souce of amazingly cheap experience points. And when you paste them so easily, it'll make the point he's gone too far.

 

[Dark Psion]

I think part of the problem is not in playing a Psion, but in DMing with a Psion. If you are not used to them, they can foul up a well crafted adventure.

Consider a 5th level Wizard vs a 5th level Psion. Without considering ability bonuses, the Diviner can cast 3 first level Divinations to the Seers 25 first level manifestations. From that point of view, they do seem powerfull. On the plus side, you know exactly what powers they posses and so might their enemies.

The secret of course is to throw Psionics right back at the players (DM rule 2: Anything the players can do, the NPCs can do too).

The Question of the Energy powers has come up several times and in a previous version, the XPH would have required specialization in an energy type. Using other energy types would be an augmentation; +2 PsP for Kineticist, +4 PsP for others. This is a good alternate rule for Psionics and can allow for the return of Acid damage (especially if you cannot specialize in it).

 

[Majere]

From my thousands (millions ?) Of posts, including hours of number crunching and shouting and screaming and crying and stuff on various psi threads I came to the following conclusions.

1) Psions on the whole are better balanced than they appear on paper.
- Sorcerers have a greater depth of resource, psions have a greater flexibility.
I would acturally limit the speed at which psis aquire their spells, not letting them get all their spells for a level "up front". Maybe not allowing a character to know more than 2 powers of the highest level they can cast.

2) Psion DC's increase too rapidly.
- With the items in the PsiHB low point buy psions were pushing 27/28 dcs. This is clearly not balanced against other casting classes. I would remove most of the DC increasing items and cap all DC increases at 1/2pps

3) Psion damage spells should have the elemental selectivity removed.
- Or the same option should be given to sorcerers and mages

4) Psions get dominate monster too early.
Combined with point 2, this power can ruin a game.

There are 1 or two broken spells, and spell feat/ combinatsions.
Such as the spell dealing 9d6/r damage combined with the feat that allows you to use your psicrystal to concentrate on the power while you use other powers simultainiously.
Realistically 3.5 PsiHB is little more broken than 3.0 There are problems but the majority of the system seems to work.

Majere

 

[rekash]

Psionics

Merlion: Not gaming with him period is not an option. He's an amazing DM, and extremely fair and objective. He just doesn't see the Psionics rules as balanced. His games are very well thought-out with intricate plot lines. I can understand if he's worried about class balance. I do think, however, that he's just not giving it a chance. I'll suggest that we use the rules as they are for the time being and see what he says.

Thanks for all the information, guys!

 

[Henry]

It sounds like your DM is working on a Magic-poor world; is this the case? If it is, then he may be intentionally be trying to limit all spellcasters. You might want to be sure that everyone is not getting equally reduced across the board.

Oh, and PLEASE tell me your DM didn't think that sorcerers don't case spontaneously. Yowza!

 

[Merlion]

That was kind of my point and why I asked exactly how he is limiting Wizards. If he is removing Wizards 2 free spells, then to me it sounds like he just wants to severly cut back all things magical. And as Henry says, I'd be sure everyone and everything is being similiarly hobbled.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I believe that the DM is probably trying to pull the prevalence of magic down a few notches and he is just throwing out random ideas of things about things that might be problems with respect to psionics.

Since you clearly admire this DM's game as a whole, my advice is to forget about the idea of playing a psion for now, and maybe come back to it after the DM has had an opportunity to read the entire book at his leisure. Pressing him on an expansion book he has not had a chance to fully digest is not helpful IMHO.

 

[The Souljourner]

Maybe psionics just isn't the right choice for this campaign. I'd highly recommend a ranger or a bard for a low magic game with an amazing DM. Both have a huge selection of interesting abilities for both in and out of combat, can be really fun to roleplay, and don't really rely on magic items any more than anyone else.

It really just sounds like psionics aren't the way to go. If you can come to some kind of agreement whereby you aren't totally screwed, it might be fun to play the hunted guy.... but make sure you'll actually have fun playing that type of character in that type of situation. If you just like the psion for his abilities, it may not be worth it.

-The Souljourner