My games critical fumble chart

[sammy]

My group and I have been trying a critical fumble chart for a while now, and we have all enjoyed it so far. All of us in the group had a hand in it's creation, from concept to tweaking. It's small. but seems to be good (for us, at least). The mechanic is random, just as combat can be. I know some people are against said charts. I don't mean to start a debate, which I'm sure is WAY overdone by now, but I just wanted to share this with the gaming world at large.


FUMBLE CHART

1) Any "DC" or "check" uses this formula: 1d12 +10

2) A natural attack roll of "1" is then followed by a Dexterity check. If successful, then the attack was only a normal miss.

3) If failed, the player rolls 1d12, and consult below chart. Also, any remaining actions are lost.


1-2: It's your lucky day! Stumble 5 feet in a random direction.

3 : OFF BALANCE- You are flat footed until the beginning of your next turn.

4 : DISTRACTED- Make a "WILL" save or be -1 to AC and attacks until your next turn.

5 : SLIP- Make a "DEX" check or fall prone.

6 : OPENING- The target of your attack gets a free attack of opportunity.

7 : DROP ITEM- Make a "REF" check or drop the weapon or item you attack with in your space. Picking up the item or weapon is a "move action", which provokes attacks of oportunity.

8 : WILD SWING- Attack a random target, friend or foe, but apply no strength bonuses.

9 : TRIP- Make a "DEX" check or fall prone and be stunned for 1d4 rounds.

10 : WEAPON/ITEM FLIES FROM GRASP- The weapon or item you attack with flies from your hand. It lands 1d6 squares away in a random direction.

11 : WIDE OPEN- All enemies you threaten get a free attack of opportunity.

12 : DM CHOICE- Either pick one of the above results, or have the player roll again, but any DC or Check increases by "2". This increase may stack with itself.

 

[Folly]

In general, I do not like fumbles in this manor. Given there is an additional dex check, but that is no different than confirming on a critical hit except worse (most players have small amounts of dex). The problem is that these penalties are worse than the benefit achieved by a critical success. In general, a critical success is equivalent to an extra 1 or 2 hits (occasion 3 if you player uses a x4) Losing the remainder of the actions alone can cause the player to lose 3 hits or more if you happen to be a two-weapon fighter. To add fumbles on top of that is especially harsh.

 

[edemaitre]

Critical fumble house rules

In my game, critical fumbles happen on a natural 1 on a 1d20 attack roll. To confirm, use one of the following two methods:

-Another attack roll against the opponent's Armor Class, including all normal attack bonuses. [Game Master's note: I considered using just the Base Attack Bonus vs. the defender's flat-footed AC here.] If the attack misses again, see the table below for the result, where the difference between the second attack roll and the defender's Armor Class is the number of the result.

-Simple result: As with the multiplier for critical hits, roll a second 1d20 after rolling a natural 1. If another natural 1 is rolled, roll 1d20 for the result on the table below.

1. Swing and a miss: Simple miss, no penalties.
2. Butterfingers: Drop random item from possessions.
3. Flat-footed for one round.
4. Barf: Sickened (hit in the 'nads), -2 attacks, damage, and saves for one round. (Fortitude save, Difficulty Class 15 to negate).
5. Here, use mine: Opponent can try to disarm.
6. Slam dancing: Bump into friend, make Balance check DC 12 or both lose next attacks.
7. Get out of my way: Spoil closest ally's next attack (Reflex save to avoid).
8. With friends like these… Distract nearest friendly spellcaster (concentration check to negate).
9. Ouch: Pull a muscle, -2 to attacks until treated.
10. What monsters, I don't see any monsters? Armor/gear slip, -2 to attacks and Armor Class until straightened out (Move action).
11. Capes, foiled again! Entangled: Need to spend a standard action to get out.
12. Wide open: Opponents get an Attack of Opportunity.
13. Slip slidin' away: Off-balance, miss next-round action (Reflex save to negate).
14. Oof: Knocked back one hex (five feet, provoke AO).
15. Disarmed: Drop weapon; will need to spend an action (and possibly provoke an AO) to retrieve.
16. On your ass: Prone; you can spend an action next round getting up (provoke an A) at +4 when doing so).
17. Weapon break: Weapon saves to avoid breaking (magical bonuses apply; see rules for Sunder and Breakage)
18. Boot to the head: Hit self (Fortitude save or be stunned for one round).
19. Friendly fire: Hit friend (save to negate damage).
20. You're your own worst enemy: Hit self (save for half damage).

 

[Ruslanchik]

The two systems here seem like they would add another layer of complexity to combat, which can be good. It also seems like they would slow things down a lot, though. Using the second method it could take four roles to resolve one attack--in several cases the last role is made by another player. The OP's method using d12s and rolling to set a DC must add a ton of time to already long encounters.

Critical fumbles are definitely not a necessary part of the game. Missing an attack is plenty of punishment, especially in a tense battle. However, the best system I've ever played with was: after rolling a natural 1 roll 1d20 again if you roll another 1 you either drop your weapon or fall down (DM's choice based on which makes the most sense). This rule should apply to monsters and PCs. Not nearly as detailed as your schemes, but much more elegant and efficient.

 

[ImBatman]

In my game, critical fumbles happen on a natural 1 on a 1d20 attack roll. To confirm, use one of the following two methods:

-Another attack roll against the opponent's Armor Class, including all normal attack bonuses.

There is a huge problem with this "confirming" a fumble roll system using a follow-up miss check.

Highly competent characters will "fumble" much more often (especially vs. formidable opponents), as their multiple attacks will have lower to hit rolls. Having more than one attack will statistically increase your chance to fumble!

A Dragon vs a 15th level Paladin, both have decent "to hit" rolls and AC's. Both are heroic fantasy figures, very competent and deadly fighters, cool under pressure, etc. Now the Paladin rolls a "1" in combat and then is forced to roll a "fumble" check to confirm "fumbling" his sword swing. He is statistically much more likely to confirm the fumble versus a dragon (very high AC) than versus say a goblin (low AC).

While it is more likely to miss the Dragon, but why with a fumble system would you want him to not only miss, but catastrophically botch his attack? Is that heroic or cinematic? And even versus the lowly goblin, why would you want to embarrass your player's 15th level Paladin with such a scene? Some will argue that with adversity a true hero still finds a way to succeed, but I think a well defined combat scene and foe will be enough.

At low levels, some of this is okay, "remember that time when we were just starting out when you swung your sword so hard it went flying in the air", (as long as other PC/NPC's aren't hurt), but I really think (IMHO) that it detracts from the "heroic" aspects of the game.

I personally don't use any fumble system, players already really hate rolling a "1" for an automatic miss, no one finds it heroic to stab a friend, shoot an ally, etc. It may be realistic for simulating the chaos of combat, but it's not heroic, did Legolas ever miss and hit Gimli instead? Would you want him to?

 

[Folly]

*clap*

Thank you ImBatman for putting my feelings on the issue in such a concise form.

 

[Crosswind]

A few notes for Batman -

Any critical fumble system has the person with iterative attacks missing more often. A fumble system that relies on an attack roll to confirm or deny the critical hit favors the people who are more competent at fighting. As edemaitre's game doesn't tend to go beyond 10th level, the secondary attacks of fighters tend to be pretty good attacks, anyways. It is extremely rare for something too dire to happen.

As for you being more likely to fumble when trying to hit something hard to hit than, say, a goblin...that makes more intuitive sense to me - you're trying harder, and are more likely to screw up due to degree of difficulty.

-Cross

 

[Darkwolf71]

Any critical fumble system has the person with iterative attacks missing more often. A fumble system that relies on an attack roll to confirm or deny the critical hit favors the people who are more competent at fighting.

This is exactly why crit fumble rules are a bad idea, tossing in a confirmation roll may make it less crap for the fighters, but it's still crap.

That said and to stay mostly on-topic, I like the idea of a Dex check as confirmation, it makes an even chance for the confirmation based on the characters natural grace. This makes sense. (I still don't like it, but it makes sense. )

 

[sammy]

Yes, I knew some people don't like crit fumble charts. I should have mentioned that my group is very small ( 2 players right now), so speed of play is not an issue.

To be honest, I think this is a quick system in general. It only takes about 5 seconds.

Roll a 1? DEX chack at (roll) 15. Player rolls, missess. OK, roll 1D12 to see what happens.

#x? ( __ ) check to avoid it. Player rolls, makes it ( they usually do, by the way), and we all continue.

I see this actually favoring the PCs by a good margin. Their stats are usually fairly good, so a small check is usually made in their favor.

This is just our way of doing this stuff. I didn't mean to start an old debate again. If you don't like it, well, don't use it. I have been in games that do both, and prefer games that have a fumble chart. Heroic? No. Fun? Absolutely. The chaos of combat is upon you. Deal with it.

Sammy

 

[el-remmen]

My group has been playing with critical fumble table (using the natural '1' miss confirmation system) and honestly there are rarely more than 1 fumble a session (though occasionally there are flukes where there are a dozen, which is fun too).

But as some people have pointed out, this may fall apart at high levels as my games never go past about 12th level.

As for not being heroic, for me heroic is about motives and goals not about individual results. Anyway, emerging victorious from a battle despite its potential chaos is even more heroic!

As for the OP's chart, I would just suggest being more specific in the results.

Here is a link to my game's fumble chart.

Because our game's rule Zero is no rule shall be followed to absurdity, any result that does not make sense to the context of the battle's action counts as "no effect". Our critical hit result charts can also lead to "no effect" at times.