Bartmanhomer
First Post
I finally made my first villain at http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=517188 to see what do you think of my villains! 
My heroes and villains
- Thread starter Bartmanhomer
- Start date
Bartmanhomer
First Post
What do you really think?
Sejs
First Post
To be honest, it needs work. However, I'm feeling generous, so what the heck, let's have a go at ol' Slade.
Okay, to get things rolling, posting the stats just so I don't have to have two pages up at once.
Alright, now from the other thread you mention this guy is basically a crimeboss. Fair enough. Now as I see it, he's got two major deficiencies as far as making him a worthwhile villain.
1) His stats are all kinds of Crazy With High Number. We need to rope that back in. First thing that needs to be done: cut out the FFXI items. They're just gone. Don't mix systems, BMH, it doesn't work out in the end. Second thing, the Shadow Kukri would be ridiculously powerful even for an epic item. It either has to go entirely, or it needs to be seriously reworked from the ground on up. Third; rebuilding the character himself. Now to your credit you seem much more conversant with the rules than the last time we spoke, but there's still a bit to go. *smile*
2) He's a villain without a cause. Sure, he's a badguy, but why is he a badguy, what does he do that makes him a badguy, and so on? He also seems, well, far too sympathetic of a character to be a real good villain. As it stands he's ... following the footsteps of his father and picking up the family tradition of... crimebossdom? Nah, that's limp. Needs work. Needs grit. Likewise, he's got his lovely wife and three kids. Seems rather idylic, don't it? Too much so for a badguy. Oh, and the surname "Shadowhawk" absolutly must go. It's hokey. Besides, if this guy is really a crimeboss, it would behoove him not to advertise his nefarious dealings with a name like that. It's basically one step up from Stan Von Killspeopleformoney.
Suggestions on how one might fix the above to follow.
Okay, to get things rolling, posting the stats just so I don't have to have two pages up at once.
BMH said:
Alright, now from the other thread you mention this guy is basically a crimeboss. Fair enough. Now as I see it, he's got two major deficiencies as far as making him a worthwhile villain.
1) His stats are all kinds of Crazy With High Number. We need to rope that back in. First thing that needs to be done: cut out the FFXI items. They're just gone. Don't mix systems, BMH, it doesn't work out in the end. Second thing, the Shadow Kukri would be ridiculously powerful even for an epic item. It either has to go entirely, or it needs to be seriously reworked from the ground on up. Third; rebuilding the character himself. Now to your credit you seem much more conversant with the rules than the last time we spoke, but there's still a bit to go. *smile*
2) He's a villain without a cause. Sure, he's a badguy, but why is he a badguy, what does he do that makes him a badguy, and so on? He also seems, well, far too sympathetic of a character to be a real good villain. As it stands he's ... following the footsteps of his father and picking up the family tradition of... crimebossdom? Nah, that's limp. Needs work. Needs grit. Likewise, he's got his lovely wife and three kids. Seems rather idylic, don't it? Too much so for a badguy. Oh, and the surname "Shadowhawk" absolutly must go. It's hokey. Besides, if this guy is really a crimeboss, it would behoove him not to advertise his nefarious dealings with a name like that. It's basically one step up from Stan Von Killspeopleformoney.
Suggestions on how one might fix the above to follow.
Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
Sejs said:
That is certainly the funniest thing I've read in a long time.
Sejs
First Post
Okay, the meat and potatoes. Mister Slade [Insert New Surname Here] is a human, rogue/20. That alone is quite impressive. His stats, minus the modifiers from his listed items are:
Strength: 14/+2
Dexterity: 18/+4
Constitution: 14/+2
Intelligence: 16/+3
Wisdom: 12/+1
Charisma: 11/+0
He'll have 19d6 + (20 x Con mod) + 6 hp, a BAB of +15/+10/+5, a base Fort and Will save of +6, and a base Ref save of +12. He'll walk away with a total of 8 feats (assuming he doesn't cash in any rogue special abilities for feats, or take a flaw), and having stuck with rogue for twenty levels, a metric #$&*ton of skillpoints.
As far as stats are concerned, he's smart, that's good, he's stronger than he needs to be (sneak attack should be his m.o. - leave brute strength to the thugs), and he's not nearly as charismatic as would befit a crimeboss. At a suggestion, cut his Str down to 12, his Wis to 10, and put his Cha to 15. I don't know if the stats listed are supposed to already incorporate the 5 points of stat gain garnered from leveling up, but I'll assume they do. If not, I'd say put at least one point into Cha (raising it to 16), and the rest into Dex (raising it to 22). Another option would be to put it all into Cha and have him with a Cha of 20.
Actually, scratch the first option, I like the second one much better. Yeah. Charisma 20. The guy is slick, cool, and confident as all get out. He's a teflon man, nothing sticks to him.
Okay, so he's got an Int of 16, he's human, and he's a rogue. That means at each level he'll have [8 + Int Mod (3) + Racial Bonus (1) = 12] 12 skill points available to spend, x4 for 1st. 278 points in total, unless I'm mistaken.
(Feh, real life calling... more later.)
Strength: 14/+2
Dexterity: 18/+4
Constitution: 14/+2
Intelligence: 16/+3
Wisdom: 12/+1
Charisma: 11/+0
He'll have 19d6 + (20 x Con mod) + 6 hp, a BAB of +15/+10/+5, a base Fort and Will save of +6, and a base Ref save of +12. He'll walk away with a total of 8 feats (assuming he doesn't cash in any rogue special abilities for feats, or take a flaw), and having stuck with rogue for twenty levels, a metric #$&*ton of skillpoints.
As far as stats are concerned, he's smart, that's good, he's stronger than he needs to be (sneak attack should be his m.o. - leave brute strength to the thugs), and he's not nearly as charismatic as would befit a crimeboss. At a suggestion, cut his Str down to 12, his Wis to 10, and put his Cha to 15. I don't know if the stats listed are supposed to already incorporate the 5 points of stat gain garnered from leveling up, but I'll assume they do. If not, I'd say put at least one point into Cha (raising it to 16), and the rest into Dex (raising it to 22). Another option would be to put it all into Cha and have him with a Cha of 20.
Actually, scratch the first option, I like the second one much better. Yeah. Charisma 20. The guy is slick, cool, and confident as all get out. He's a teflon man, nothing sticks to him.
Okay, so he's got an Int of 16, he's human, and he's a rogue. That means at each level he'll have [8 + Int Mod (3) + Racial Bonus (1) = 12] 12 skill points available to spend, x4 for 1st. 278 points in total, unless I'm mistaken.
(Feh, real life calling... more later.)
painandgreed
First Post
Ya, I can't see the items or the effects in any game I'd be in any time soon. Soemthing like what Sejs proposes would be good but I don't see any reason to mess with his charisma. With an 11 charisma, nobody is going to be deserting him because he's a jerk. He just rose up through skill and ability and the intelligence to see what the big picture is. It dosen't take charisma to propose a slice of a big pie to somebody else. I'd rather gho with the hard guy that's capable at preforming the jobs that he sends his theives out to do rather than a flimsy faceman. A thief or adventurer who got enough money and a rep for good planning to take over. From there, he just makes sure that the most profitable thing for everybody else to do is join him with carrot or stick.
Sejs
First Post
(still busy with real life, just a quick pop-in)
*nod* I can see where you're coming from Pain. Kinda the image I got that stuck was for Mr. Crimeboss starting off reasonably charismatic, and as he goes about rising through the ranks, more and more as he progresses through levels, finding Charisma to be more important the further along he goes. So he places his advancement points into the stat that he finds himself using more often. If he were your standard dungeoneering type rogue who scrapped and trapped his way up through all twenty levels I'd say boost his Dex, but as a mafia don type rogue I really sort of envision the guy being a people person. Be it underlings, authorities, society types, or rivals - dealing with people is a large part of what being a crimeboss (as opposed to just a kick-ass criminal) is all about.
And if that doesn't communicate what I'm trying to say well, allow me to instead substitute two words:
Kaiser Soze.
*nod* I can see where you're coming from Pain. Kinda the image I got that stuck was for Mr. Crimeboss starting off reasonably charismatic, and as he goes about rising through the ranks, more and more as he progresses through levels, finding Charisma to be more important the further along he goes. So he places his advancement points into the stat that he finds himself using more often. If he were your standard dungeoneering type rogue who scrapped and trapped his way up through all twenty levels I'd say boost his Dex, but as a mafia don type rogue I really sort of envision the guy being a people person. Be it underlings, authorities, society types, or rivals - dealing with people is a large part of what being a crimeboss (as opposed to just a kick-ass criminal) is all about.
And if that doesn't communicate what I'm trying to say well, allow me to instead substitute two words:
Kaiser Soze.
Bartmanhomer
First Post
Sejs said:
So I'm doing much better, this time?
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