D&D 5E My New Players Have Quit 5th Edition

Uller

Adventurer
I'd like to know the circumstances of the encounter that lead to this tpk. I try to not run my monsters stupidly either but let's face it...many monsters will be undisciplined and certainly dont know all that the dm knows. A goblin has likely never fought a group of adventurers before. A single goblin will often prefer to avoid great risk to himself and will be content to let others do the heavy lifting if he can.
 

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Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Sorry, no sympathy from hre for either the players or DM.

If the players were keen they'd roll up new characters and try again; that they instead quit tells me the game might not be for them in the first place.

If the DM was with it and the party in fact only had two PCs (and note, we don't know this from the OP) then the other three pre-gens should have been played as party NPCs to keep the numbers straight; either that, or the encounter(s) had to be scaled back pretty harshly.

Lan-"what doesn't kill you makes you weaker, so the next thing can kill you"-efan
 

Yeah; you would have had super ridiculous luck on both ends in order to win with that fight, even with a surprise round. This sounds like insane luck on one end as well as terrible initiative rolling & damage rolling from the PC end.

I am reading through the adventure now. That first encounter was only 4 regular goblins. It was meant for the pregen party of 5. If it was all 4 against only 2 PCs then I can see both possibly getting dropped.

This isn't a bad thing. It teaches that there is safety in numbers. Hire cannon fodder if there are only 2 of you or stay home.

Sorry, no sympathy from hre for either the players or DM.

If the players were keen they'd roll up new characters and try again; that they instead quit tells me the game might not be for them in the first place.

If the DM was with it and the party in fact only had two PCs (and note, we don't know this from the OP) then the other three pre-gens should have been played as party NPCs to keep the numbers straight; either that, or the encounter(s) had to be scaled back pretty harshly.

Lan-"what doesn't kill you makes you weaker, so the next thing can kill you"-efan

Exactly.
 

GameOgre

Adventurer
I WANT to play D&D where if the DM rolls like he is on fire and I roll horrid there are consequences.

Lets look at this the other way.

How good would D&D 5 be if everyone came here today to say,the goblins got surprise,rolled really well,we rolled like crap but the goblins died fast enough so no issues.

Well congrats on that? Issue the "You made 20th Level Congratulation cards "Now and save time!

I agree that there is a camp of gamers who think Death in the game is Death of the game,im just not one of them. I don't mind people playing that way,more power to em! I just hope 5E isn't that kind of game!
 

WayneLigon

Adventurer
As if 5E was somehow magically different than previous versions?
AD&D - 2hp Wizard. I fall trying to climb out a first story window. 1d3 damage. Dead. And you thought housecats were deadly...
AD&D 2E - 10hp Fighter. I slip on the icy mountain path leading up to the first adventure. They don't find the body until spring.
3E - Human warrior axe critical in first encounter. Need I say more?
 

Uller

Adventurer
As if 5E was somehow magically different than previous versions?
AD&D - 2hp Wizard. I fall trying to climb out a first story window. 1d3 damage. Dead. And you thought housecats were deadly...
AD&D 2E - 10hp Fighter. I slip on the icy mountain path leading up to the first adventure. They don't find the body until spring.
3E - Human warrior axe critical in first encounter. Need I say more?
My first game of d&d was OD&D..Keep on the Borderlands. I rolled up my character...a magic user...I found my way to the kobald lair. I cast my one magic missile spell for 1d4+1 damage. Then I died. Kept on playing...
 

Thaumaturge

Wandering. Not lost. (He/they)
That works too, though I'm not personally a fan of the "it was all a dream" method, it has some advantages, like not having to reroll.

I agree.

I'm not a fan of this either, but for the first battle in your first dungeons with 2 new characters and its their first game not to mention your first time running this new system.....probably no better time to use it then this.

And I was about to write a reply, but Xodis pretty much nailed my thoughts. :)

Thaumaturge.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
I haven't read the intervening thread, so I'm sorry if this has all be shouted at the OP already...

There is nothing quite like introducing two new players to 5th Edition and having their pregenerated characters die in the surprise round of the 1st encounter without getting to take any actions.
Try seeing that happen to a player who'd spent /hours/ building her character. That's what happened in the Cult of Chaos playtest I ran. Well, except it wasn't a surprise round, the enemy (actually a mind-controlled ally) just won initiative in the first round, and *pop*. Ironically, the character died because she came up second in the initiative order and bled out before anyone could help her.

I didn't complain as much as a lot of other folks about the subsequent changes to the dying rules. ;)

And, yeah, had it been new players introduced to the current game, rather than experienced ones doing playtesting, I'd've fudged that corner-case result in a heartbeat, without the players even being aware of it.

No I will not start a campaign at 3rd level.
No I will not fudge numbers.
No I will not play monsters stupidly.
If you're not doing at least 2 out of 3 of those, you're not running "real D&D." :p

No I will not award Clerics with bonus actions to keep allies alive.

That is one thing I specifically asked. I asked for a higher starting hit point variant. ..was denied.
What did you do before 2008? Or did you start with 4e?

Anyway, just start at 3rd. 3rd /is/ first. Think of it as a code. Subtract two levels from all the tables if it makes you feel better.


Don't drive players away from the hobby. It's our job as experienced DMs to make the current ed palatable to new players, however much we may need to 'fudge' things (and DMs have always needed to fudge things). Our hobby is tiny, obscure, and now it has MMOs and social media to compete with. We cannot afford to have anyone drive away potential players out of pique at the game not being designed exactly as they like. When you run for a new player, you are the public face of D&D. Wear a mask if you have to, but make it look good.
 

Falling Icicle

Adventurer
That is one thing I specifically asked. I asked for a higher starting hit point variant. ..was denied.

You haven't been "denied" anything. The basic rules are just that. They don't include any of the optional variants that are going to be in the DMG. Besides, how can a game company "deny" you the ability to do anything? If you want to give your players more HPs at 1st level, you don't need their permission!
 

Dausuul

Legend
The very first session of 4E I ever ran, the fighter died on the third encounter. Rats ate him*.

I hastily whipped up a limited-use resurrection source and gave the party a brief side quest to retrieve it, because when you're running a new game for the first time, you expect a few mishaps. The fighter went on to a long and glorious career.

[SIZE=-2]*He was caught in multiple overlapping swarms. The automatic damage took him down to negative bloodied in short order.[/SIZE]
 

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