My piazo problmes Forked Thread: Another Cease and Desist Letter: 4E Powercards

[Caliber]

Didn't the Paizo guys mention that they were concerned that the OGL might be revoked some time in the future? Isn't that one of the reasons they started the Pathfinder project to give themselves their own core rules?

(Of course, now I can't find that press release...)

Hrms. IANAL but as far as I know the OGL is completely non-revocable, so that shouldn't have been an issue. Any lawyers reading, feel free to jump in here and tell us how it is.

 

[lin_fusan]

Hrms. IANAL but as far as I know the OGL is completely non-revocable, so that shouldn't have been an issue. Any lawyers reading, feel free to jump in here and tell us how it is.

To add an additional caveat, I might be remembering thea statement to be about the SRD, not the OGL...

 

[Zil]

Didn't the Paizo guys mention that they were concerned that the OGL might be revoked some time in the future? Isn't that one of the reasons they started the Pathfinder project to give themselves their own core rules?

(Of course, now I can't find that press release...)

The OGL can't be revoked. I suspect that what you're remembering is some concerns expressed over the GSL. The GSL can be revoked so that may be what you had read.

 

[Caliber]

Sure, Paizo could have simply assumed that people will continue to use their old 3.5 books or that they will use the 3.5 SRD, but without new rule books for the game on shelves in hobby and book stores, it requires a lot more effort for someone new to come into the game. By printing a new fork of the game, they ensure that the game is on the shelves in stores so that new and existing players remain aware of the 3.5 game.

My friend has sat next to me with a copy of the OGL PHB and DMG for several years now. Paizo could surely have printed out the same; if the complaint is that the SRD ruleset isn't complete, they could simply add in the missing pieces as they no doubt are having to do with Pathfinder. Add some art and quality binding, and you could easily have books in hobby and book stores, without a need to leave 3.5.

Perhaps, but only if they manage to botch backwards compatibility. I haven't found that to be the case so far.


I believe that Paizo have stated that they will put out a "3.5 to Pathfinder" (and Pathfinder to 3.5) conversion book sometime around the official final release of Pathfinder so you should still be able to run Pathfinder adventure paths with 3.5 without too much difficulty. Heck, I currently use 3.5 Adventure Paths with Pathfinder and find that the number of things that you need to convert are pretty minimal and most (if not all) can be done on the fly.

Hrm, well. In the end, I guess this will vary from person to person. For me, from what I've seen, Pathfinder is too far away to be backwards compatible. A conversion booklet will help some, no doubt, but I just feel like I'd be jumping through several hoops too many to just play 3.5. Like I said, if you grove to it, that's great I'm happy for you. But the selfish part of me wishes the decision had gone differently.

 

[Mercutio01]

IANAL, but I think the issue is/was more about the d20 STL. The OGL is irrevocable. The d20 STL was more temporary. So you can't slap a d20 label on anything anymore as that license was dissolved in favor of the GSL, but you can use OGL to publish game material pretty much in perpetuity.

 

[Maggan]

To add an additional caveat, I might be remembering thea statement to be about the SRD, not the OGL...

I'll add to the confusion and posit that you are probably talking about the d20STL.

/M

 

[James Jacobs]

The primary reason we decided to do the Pathfinder RPG was because we wanted to keep producing the same types of adventures and sourcebooks we've been (quite successfully) producing for 3.5 for years now. With WotC's move to 4th edition, the 3.5 rulebooks no longer are in print. For now, sure, they're still relatively easy to find, but we wanted a core rulebook in print that isn't doomed to become harder and harder to find in stores as the years roll on—and that meant we had to print a rulebook ourselves. We can't just reprint the SRD, because two key parts of the rules (ability score generation and how to hand out experience points and level up your character) aren't in the OGL or SRD. We'd have to remake those rules anyway. And if we're remaking those rules, why stop there? Why not look at ways to improve the game to support the types of adventures and sourcebooks we're producing, while keeping close to the spirit of the rules and the game?

And then, why not open the Beta playtest to the public?

In the end, all of the Adventure Paths and modules and sourcebooks we'll be printing after this August when we officially make the move to the PFRPG will be pretty easy for folks who prefer to run 3.0 or 3.5 games to use. Stat blocks will look the same. Spells will be named the same. The classes and races are the same. The mechanics are different, yes, but that's no different than running "The Sunless Citadel" for a 3.5 game, or Shackled City for a 3.0 game (or 1st or 2nd edition game, for that matter).

In any event, we WILL be providing a conversion book to ease the transition of 3.5 to PFRPG, or PFRPG to 3.5. And the physical difference between a Pre-PFRPG Paizo product and a Post-PFRPG Paizo product should be pretty similar... I don't suspect that, at a glance, it'll be easy to tell the difference.

Anyway... please try to keep tempers moderated—the hobby's big enough for all of us!

EDIT: And yes... the OGL, which is the rules that the PFRPG is based on, cannot be revoked. It is forever, as long as folks keep using it. The only way it can be "revoked" is if it's allowed to fade away into internet obscurity, I suppose, like "All Your Base" and the hamster dance.

 

[Simplicity]

I am a long time fan of Paizo, but when they left 4e, they lost me. They can tell a great story, and Wizards is so far failing to show that they *can* do so. 4e is just a better game. There is nothing preventing it from having the same great stories as 3.5... I just people were writing stories for it, like I know Paizo could.

 

[Ghostwind]

James, speaking strictly in my capacity as a publisher, I'm looking forward to the Pathfinder RPG and what it will offer in terms of allowing other publishers to support it. I've liked what I've seen in the Beta version and plan on buying the complete version when it is finally available.

 

[DaveMage]

I am a long time fan of Paizo, but when they left 4e, they lost me.

Um...left 4e? They were never "at" 4e.

Would it not be more accurate to say that it was you who left 3.5?

But it's okay - we'll leave the light on for you.