My review of ETools........long post

[LightPhoenix]

Well gee, since Bioware had the 3E rules (technically, the playtest docs) before most people likely knew 3E existed, I think that qualifies as acceptance by WotC. But then, since you don't even have the game you're commenting on, you wouldn't know this, would you?

[EDIT]
Oh, by the way...

p. 215 of the NWN instruction manual, under the section "Copyright"...

"...Neverwinter Nights, Forgotten Realms, the Forgotten Realms logo, Dungeons & Dragons logo, Dungeon Master, D&D, and the Wizards of the Coast logo are trademarks owned by Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidary of Hasbro, Inc. and are used by Infrogrames Entertainment, S. A. under license."

Emphasis mine.

 

[Agamon]

Bioware didn't have WoTC on board. Wotc had *no* say or oversight at all on any Bioware product. They only recently decided to be interested in having more control over their IP. Bioware might have gotten their original license from TSR. And this will be unchanged in the future since Hasbro sold the rights for computer D&D games.

WotC couldn't force Bio to do things this way or that, no. But Bio went to WotC to seek their input. They didn't have to, they wanted to.

 

[Piratecat]

Keep the personal insults off the boards, please. This isn't the place for them.

 

[HexGunna]

It's not his fault...Really

It's My fault - you see a few posts back, and another thread, Sm!rk-i-son asked me for some url links and that unless I had these links I was "talking out your azz" - Sm!rk-man, I had't realized that was a cry for help.
My bad dude - I was all caught up and wasn't listening, I know some of the folks out here can be intimidating-like with all that knowledge and stuff flying around, but they mean well man. They do.

But I'm not gonna let you go out like THAT, Dawg. You & me - we go back a few posts - I got those links for ya
Now mind ya - you might need to layout some cash for some of these - but I know you - and I didn't steer ya to no yugos.
Nothing but Ferrari's for you and me!! (or as close as I can get)
So bone up dawg, I gotcha back baby - I'll help ya get that boot out. Here ya go:

http://nwn.bioware.com/about/description.html - you'll spend ALOTTA time here, then you'll dig what I was saying earlier and we can resume that dialog.

http://us.infogrames.com/store/?game=NVWN&platform=PCXX
it's not a Ferrari - but miles better than a Yugo, AND you'll get to try out 1st hand what I'm talking about.

http://www.wolflair.com - cause I know you didn't go, but really, check it out - it's a valid proof-of-concept.

http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/ogl.html - this'll get you up on the OGL stuff, you were stumbling there.

http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/ - cause I'm detecting a pattern, no money here - this one's free and this'll be a good point of reference.

I don't wanna overwhelm you, so absorb those - sorry I let you down like that in front of ALL these strangers. Imagine my surprise when I read your post and saw all that frustration!
I dang neared snorted out my Wheaties!!

Thank you once again, Sm!rk - I was serious when I said I dug you earlier, Always entertaining.
My Man Sm!rk.

(like what I program in has a bearing on any RPG tool's Architecture - but those are links for another time/thread! )

 

[smetzger]

1) You can make d20 software legally. In fact its already being done. TwinRose is even selling theirs.

2) I also have yet to see a commercial D&D software package that I thought was done well.

3) TSR and WOTC have always chosen video game development companies for making a D&D software package. Take a look at previous stuff done by Fluid. Would you hire a video game programmer to write a database application for you?

4) Are you sure Fluid is using ODBC? I would have thought they would have used ADO.

 

[HexGunna]

1) You can make d20 software legally. In fact its already being done. TwinRose is even selling theirs.

2) I also have yet to see a commercial D&D software package that I thought was done well.

3) TSR and WOTC have always chosen video game development companies for making a D&D software package. Take a look at previous stuff done by Fluid. Would you hire a video game programmer to write a database application for you?

4) Are you sure Fluid is using ODBC? I would have thought they would have used ADO.

Thanks for the TwinRose Tip - I was not aware and will take a peep.
Fluid struck me as an odd choice, but when they rolled out the demo - I was okay with it. but you're right - it is essentially a DB app.

#4 - I'll have to take a look again, but I'm sure I saw a 3rd party DLL that wrapped ODBC. One could grab all the exported funcs and possibly re-write the front-end (my 1st pass theory).
[IIRC] there is an odbc++.dll (the 3rd party one I believe the only one I pulled into the MSDev tools)
a qt300.dll - so now you know what they're using for the GUI
a core, etools and custom dlls. My best guess is that one could access a great deal of functional from the DLLs to use in another app. but since IANAL i don't know what the ramifications are.

[hey Sm!rk - any clue as to what I program in?? there are some hints above, we'll call this extra cred!]

 

[Draconis Imperium]

So what I basically got for $30 was worst than the character gen that came with the PHB. I can use the stat block monster but it usefullness is very limited because of zero templates. I found it doesn't save time but adds time. My gripe is I was hoping for a great product and got something I could throw together on a rainy weekend.

Just my .02 coppers

 

[HexGunna]

Good Scoop!

1) You can make d20 software legally. In fact its already being done. TwinRose is even selling theirs.
2.

Excellent Idea - I figured by decoupling the data and the App, you could start to avoid the snares of the OGL, and have some options about making the content "open" by using text vs binary files.
But is this enough? - I think better still to have NO D20 specific code in the App. My thought is then to further decouple the App by making it TOTALLY ignorant of the data files, meaning I could as a user use this same App to make Noblis or Godlike characters or T&T characters, by changing the data files.

I bring this up because of the rumours floating about WotC's alleged C&D orders. And I remember Napsters woes...IF only that little File filter box was changed to "*.*" and allowed user input.
I wonder if that would have changed the outcome??

very interesting....

 

[Christian]

4) Are you sure Fluid is using ODBC? I would have thought they would have used ADO.

ADO was Davin's theory-he designed & is beta-testing the import/export app. There's a bug report on the Fluid boards about a slow-run problem, though, that someone fixed by updating their ODBC drivers ...

My copy should arrive today, & I'll be trying to connect to the database via ODBC within an hour of getting home from work. We shall see ...

 

[Christian]

The shell problem is nothing, that's a little thing that really has no impact on the usability of the program. I do have a question about how prestige classes are done - specifically the Loremaster, since that is straight out of the DMG and does use that +1 spellcasting progression. Is the Loremaster even in the program, and couldn't you extrapolate from that how to work it with custom prestige classes?

I understand that the '+1 caster level' of the Loremaster is coded in the binaries, not stored in the class tables. AFAIK, nobody has found a way to work around this, and I really can't imagine how it could be done. (Not that that has stopped people from trying, of course. )