My review of ETools........long post

[elrichwizard]

Whats wrong with VB?

VB/VBscript, HTML/XML and SQL put the bread on my table (and RPG books on my shelf ). I don't see anyway around the HTML/XML or SQL. I supose C++/Java is an alternative to the VB.

I hear people say your not a real programmer unless you know C++, but I don't get it. Other than a few }'s and some weird syntax I cant see anything you can do in C++ that you cant do in VB. Ive thought about learning C++ before but just cant justify it to myself. If you have some valid reasons, I'm all ears.

Why would I want to learn two languages (C++ and Java) when I can get by with one (VB/VBscript)?

 

[smetzger]

Whats wrong with VB?

1) Not truely object oriented.
2) Its interpreted.
3) Can't do cross-platform
4) Can't do CORBA.
5) Can't do J2EE.
6) If you need to do something low level, say a device driver, not so good.
7) MS Online Help sucks (at least from VB6). It has Java, VB, and C++ all mixed together and its very common to do a search for something and be reading it and then to find out it refers to a different language.
8) MS takes a long time to get new versions out. How long was it between VB6 and VB.Net ?
9) MS is hardly the pillar of solid bug-free programs.

So whats it good for?
1) Its easy to learn.
2) Its RAD development.
3) Its from MS so your boss who doesn't know squat about programming will approve.

Borland C++ Builder and Delphi address all of the above except for #3 in What its good for.

 

[HexGunna]

Don't do it man - it's a TRAP!

It's all Ice Cream ElrichWizard, as far as I am concerned -
There is no right answer here - everyone is going to have a preference, and stats to back their preference (the 3rd kind of lie!)
Now - I'm not ashamed - I've got a merc approach to my work, and I'll use whatever the client makes a request of.
And VB, while not my best suit, is V E R Y lucrative.
It's croissants for me baby!

so, I'm glad some folks turn their noses up at VB!
But it's all [IMHO] about having a complete toolbox, and understanding how & when to use each of your tools.

But I will say this, [IMO] I would not want to "get by" [no offense -man] I'd much rather choose from a set I know, I want to have options. There isn't a one language to rule them all!
And the world I work in - I'm not always the one writing new stuff - I have the oft Glamourous role of M&E on exisitng or worse lethargic code. Which can be written in anything - I've seen VB, Cobol, Pascal (Yeah! Pascal!!) accesing Foxpro or B-Trieve even. as well as the usually suspects. I don't know about other folks, but I gotta keep a robust skill set - 'cause I never know what the next gig could look like. [and really - I just don't like rejection ]

but lets steer this thang for we get to far on a non-rpg topic - I've seen this VB vs the World re-run!
[No offense ElrichWizard]

 

[elrichwizard]

No offence taken, I asked for an oppinion and that is what I got.

I work for one company and don't produce commercial stuff (all for internal use), so cross-platform makes no diff to me.

I only do new application development so don't have to mess with legacy code. I am ususally just given the business logic and the legacy data source and development is all up to me.

Any time I spend learning new languages is time I'm not developing apps. On the other hand I want as robust a toolbox as I need. If I can produce a better app, my employer is happy, and that makes me happy when I go to the bank.

I just finished learning Essbase, but that is more of a data/reporting tool than a programing language. C++ and any other cool stuff is still on my todo list. I was just looking for any rational to move it up the list.

Sorry to have hijacked the topic, you seem to know what you are talking about and were on the topic so thought I would ask.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Back to the original topic. I have to agree. I'm on the development team for PCGen (even though I have yet to do any meaningful work on the project...I worked on early LST files which eventually became obsolete). I don't own E-Tools, but I got a chance to use it. It doesn't even half half of the functionality that PCGen does, and it is much more expensive.

PCGen CAN add multiple templates, to any race/class combination. It allows you to make your own templates that do whatever you want, in fairly easy, text format without any 3rd party tools at all. If you download all of the LST files from previous versions of PCGen, you can still have almost all of the prestige classes, feats, spells, etc from all of the WOTC books, and some 3rd party books as well.

It is true that the first "release" version of PCGen did get almost all of the books other than the core books removed, partially due to small bugs in some of them, and mostly due to the fact that we only included LST files for books that we had received explicit permission from the copyright holders to include. We are in the process of seeking that permission for the rest of the books we have LST files for.

However, even with the limited feature set that the "release" version of PCGen had, it still has more features than E-tools. I was expecting great things, and I would have loved to be able to stop reading the PCGen mailing list every week to see if a specific bug was fixed or a specific feature added. However, it seems that those things are more likely to be added to PCGen than E-Tools.

I'm glad I haven't bought E-Tools, because it's not worth the money.

I'd also like to say that the proceeding was purely my opinion, and does not represent the opinion of the PCGen development team or Merton Monk.

Majoru Oakheart