My review of ETools........long post

[Davin]

ADO was Davin's theory-he designed & is beta-testing the import/export app.

Actually, I believe we've been told several times that they're using ODBC. I prefer to use ADO in my app 'cause it's easier and "more modern" (at least from MS's point of view). However, it doesn't matter which access method you use as long as you've got drivers that talk to it. And judging from the size of the DB, there shouldn't be any noticable speed differences between the interfaces, either.

 

[Cergorach]

I understand that the '+1 caster level' of the Loremaster is coded in the binaries, not stored in the class tables. AFAIK, nobody has found a way to work around this, and I really can't imagine how it could be done. (Not that that has stopped people from trying, of course. )

Ok, i figured out that the +1 was in the binaries (somewhere) because it wasn't anywhere else ;-)

But somehow the program addresses that +1, now we only have to find out how. I'll tell you straight off the bat, it isn't gonna be me, i haven't a clue on how to do something like that...

Anyhow, has anyone made a list of what's where (and how to manipulate it)?

 

[DMFTodd]

1) You can make d20 software legally. In fact its already being done. TwinRose is even selling theirs.

I may be splitting hairs here but...

TwinRose selling their software, or me selling mine, doesn't mean it's legal. I know Chris at TR feels his program is legal, I feel my program is legal, but until WOTC comes out and says "Yep, XXX is legal and has our blessing" then I don't think we can say a program is definitely legal. I don't know that they've said that, nor do I think they will.

The OGL and d20 is a very murky thing when it comes to software.

[Disclaimer: This is not meant to be a disparagement to TwinRose. I think Chris is legal, I think I'm legal. I just don't think we can say "hey, XXX is selling software therefore it must be legal". ]

 

[Davin]

But somehow the program addresses that +1, now we only have to find out how.

Usually, such things have references hard-coded, too, such as it only works for specific class ID # XXXXXXXXXXX and ignores everything else. In that case, there's not much you can do short of a program patch.

Anyhow, has anyone made a list of what's where (and how to manipulate it)?

Not that I've seen, but I've been slowly figuring it out and converting it to code (instead of text) so that most things (hopefully including classes) will be more easily editable than using raw Access.

 

[drothgery]

Actually, I believe we've been told several times that they're using ODBC. I prefer to use ADO in my app 'cause it's easier and "more modern" (at least from MS's point of view). However, it doesn't matter which access method you use as long as you've got drivers that talk to it. And judging from the size of the DB, there shouldn't be any noticable speed differences between the interfaces, either.

I think these days the 'preferred' approach for database access on Windows (and the one that I find the simplest myself) is to use ADO.NET, but you might use the OleDb libraries directly if you were using unmanaged C++ and really worried about performance.

 

[Ysgarran]

So the OGL is preventing people from doing things, while Copyright laws seem to be no deterent to the PCGen crew. You think it would be the opposite, since the latter is a much more well known entity and has a stronger legal presense.

The PCGen crew spent ALOT of time at GenCon running around
talking to all of the people at the various companies. If you have noticed the first production release of PCGen (3.0) has dropped all of the WotC supplements (DotF, MotW, etc.). The only WotC products currently in the release are the ones found in SRD.

I don't know whether the supplements will be there in the future or not. I do know that the reason they are not currently part of the download is because they are talking to WotC about what it would take to put them back in, or if it would even be possible.

Ysgarran.

p.s.
The PCGen crew is also asking everyone to be patient until they finish talking to WotC:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen/message/42488
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen/message/42502

 

[Sm!rk]

Funny, the hip-slang gansta talk is only more humorous cause I know you are 99.99% a suburan white boy, prolly skinny and very close the typical description of punk. All in good fun, made me laugh out loud.

#4 - I'll have to take a look again, but I'm sure I saw a 3rd party DLL that wrapped ODBC. One could grab all the exported funcs and possibly re-write the front-end (my 1st pass theory).
[IIRC] there is an odbc++.dll (the 3rd party one I believe the only one I pulled into the MSDev tools)
a qt300.dll - so now you know what they're using for the GUI
a core, etools and custom dlls. My best guess is that one could access a great deal of functional from the DLLs to use in another app. but since IANAL i don't know what the ramifications are.

The odbc++ is "lib odbc++" a LGPL odbc wrapper, only link I found was this http://www.orcane.net/freeodbc++/ .

AS for using those dlls, good luck. You'll have to deeply analyze each of them to know what parameters they need and even what they do. The ultimate blackbox, only slightly easier than reverse engineering the entire thing.

[hey Sm!rk - any clue as to what I program in?? there are some hints above, we'll call this extra cred!]

My guess was and still is VB.

 

[LightPhoenix]

Funny, the hip-slang gansta talk is only more humorous cause I know you are 99.99% a suburan white boy, prolly skinny and very close the typical description of punk. All in good fun, made me laugh out loud.

Just a hint, this sort of stuff is what PC was talking about above.

 

[HexGunna]

ooops - thats Twice!

Day late, short a buck - good shot though...
Now do another pass - I'll give ya another day, it's not the "Ultimate Black box" - but you've missed a step son.

And Sm!rk-Daddy - lets keep it clean, does it matter, out here if I'm a "skinny white boy" that writes VB code and resides in surburbia or a HexSlinging Mo'Fo from Kerry Woods two-fistin small-talk style.
Perhaps I just like language and the nuances it can evoke. Or maybe I'm a hot babe with a psch degree just pushing your button.
The kicker is you'll never know anything I don't want you to - and THAT ole boy is 100%.
So let's stick to what we can all check out and verify.
aight!

And I'm afraid, this is my last post for you - It's been real.
But you "blinked" twice now - its not fun no more joe.
So as a parting gift, I'll indulge ya - I use the right tool for the job at hand.
Everything isn't a nail. So you can stop measuring your penis.
Thank you for playing.
One/Peace/C-ya/gg/Ciao/Best Regards


To EveryOne else: My apologies - I'll stop messing with him.

 

[reiella]

Also of note, Bioware (and also Black Isle with IWD2) did have to go through WotC, for rule content (IWD2 specifically a feat that allowed spellcasters to ignore some Arcane Spell Failure in armor got canned because of WotC say) and for continuity (FR plotlines-canonization).