My self indulgent reason for loving issue 354

[Razz]

I believe the monodrone has an Int of 4 and it just increases from there so that the pentadrone has a higher than human average intelligence (I want to say 16).

The pentadrone has 17 and, strangely, it has resistance to acid, cold and fire 20 instead of 10. Modrons should have 10, but it does say in the text "unless otherwise noted" so I guess pentadrones have a better energy resistance.

Which is odd. They have better energy resistance than the Tertian in Dungeon #144, which only has 10.

 

[Razz]

I only have the SRD outsiders to go off of, but the following are the immunities for the Core Outsiders.

Archons - immune to electricity and petrification.

Tanar'ri - immune to electricity and poison.

Baatezu - immune to fire and poison

Eladrin - immune to electricity and petrification

Guardinal - immune to electricity and petrification

Compare to the immunities of the Construct Type:

Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).

Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.

Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).

Not at risk of death from massive damage.

Not too shabby...

But they still have considerably higher losses:
---They won't be hitting as often as the other outsiders
---They won't be passing any of their saving throws as often
---They won't have as many hit points as the others (due to a lack of a Constitution score)
---They're definitely not as skillful as the others

Doesn't seem like a fair trade off to me. A considerable amount of increase to Intelligence and HD will offset some of these limitations. The Tertian got a huge increase, in fact, from 17 HD to 26 HD and a major boost to Intelligence to 30. The Base Modrons in the article are CR 1/2-5 and their stats seem about right, but it's at the Hierarch Modron stage where things need to be considered due to the player's resources.

 

[Shroomy]

The pentadrone has 17 and, strangely, it has resistance to acid, cold and fire 20 instead of 10. Modrons should have 10, but it does say in the text "unless otherwise noted" so I guess pentadrones have a better energy resistance.

Which is odd. They have better energy resistance than the Tertian in Dungeon #144, which only has 10.

I wonder if it is a carry over from the MotP 3e stats or if the pentadrones, as special policing/combat troops are supposed to have a higher resistance. It makes sense if you look at it that way.

 

[Razz]

I don't have the issue in front of me, but if I remember correctly, the modrons do have resistance 10 to some energy types (I'm pretty sure fire is one of them). I don't think any of the base modrons have SR, but the hierarchs probably do (again, I don't have Dungeon 144 in front of me).

You're right, only the Hierarchs have spell resistance and the Tertian has 33. Considering it's CR 19, I would assume a modron's spell resistance is equal to 12 + CR. Which they're definitely going to need what with low saves and all.

 

[kenmarable]

I wonder if it is a carry over from the MotP 3e stats or if the pentadrones, as special policing/combat troops are supposed to have a higher resistance. It makes sense if you look at it that way.

Yep. Given their role it did seem appropriate. Plus, in all of their previous incarnations going back to 1e, they had better resistances than the other base modrons. As for the tertian, looking at the 1e version (don't have the 2e one electronically here in the office), it didn't have the better resistances that pentadrones had. At a glance, only the pentadrones had the "-2 of damage per die". Now, I'm not sure I'd keep it that way just because Gary Gygax did it that way, but it's something to consider.

In my original draft, I think I had them at 5 and 10 resistances, and Jason (or whichever Paizo editor cleaned up that thing I called a draft) upped them to 10 and 20, which makes more sense. I think for the resistances, I was paying too much attention to their 1e and 2e stats and didn't consider the 3.0 ones. Plus given the issues stated above about low saves, some better resistances are in order. So that was definitely an improvement.

Also, I do agree that the difference between Construct and Outsider mechanically is a much bigger issue with the hierarchs than with the base modrons. At the base modron range of HD, the differences were minimal (though I did lament the low skill points).

 

[Razz]

Yep. Given their role it did seem appropriate. Plus, in all of their previous incarnations going back to 1e, they had better resistances than the other base modrons. As for the tertian, looking at the 1e version (don't have the 2e one electronically here in the office), it didn't have the better resistances that pentadrones had. At a glance, only the pentadrones had the "-2 of damage per die". Now, I'm not sure I'd keep it that way just because Gary Gygax did it that way, but it's something to consider.

In my original draft, I think I had them at 5 and 10 resistances, and Jason (or whichever Paizo editor cleaned up that thing I called a draft) upped them to 10 and 20, which makes more sense. I think for the resistances, I was paying too much attention to their 1e and 2e stats and didn't consider the 3.0 ones. Plus given the issues stated above about low saves, some better resistances are in order. So that was definitely an improvement.

Also, I do agree that the difference between Construct and Outsider mechanically is a much bigger issue with the hierarchs than with the base modrons. At the base modron range of HD, the differences were minimal (though I did lament the low skill points).

I figured that was the reasoning behind the Pentadrone. What about their attacks? Was it intentional for them to only have one slam attack or were they supposed to have 5 slam attacks as originally done in 1E, 2E, and 3.0E? I assume it might've been an error, especially considering the descriptive text in the article actually states they use their five appendages as they would hands.

 

[Razz]

Total bummer. Just found out from Erik Mona that there is no WE for #354 with the Hierarch Modrons, but good news is they are considering a future article for the magazine with the Hierarchs.

Looks like you're on the job again, Ken, but it's a matter of when they'll actually give "the ok" for it.

 

[Particle_Man]

Makes me wonder who constructed the Modrons initially? The first Primus? Is Primus a construct too? Do Modrons lose their construct status if they get to Divine rank (or perhaps even a lower rank)?

 

[kenmarable]

I figured that was the reasoning behind the Pentadrone. What about their attacks? Was it intentional for them to only have one slam attack or were they supposed to have 5 slam attacks as originally done in 1E, 2E, and 3.0E? I assume it might've been an error, especially considering the descriptive text in the article actually states they use their five appendages as they would hands.

I'll have to look at my notes and see if I left something out or not, and possibly crunch some numbers, but multiple slam attacks should be reasonable. I'll look into it. Having all 5 be primary attacks might be pretty potent, but I'll crunch some numbers.

 

[Razz]

I'll have to look at my notes and see if I left something out or not, and possibly crunch some numbers, but multiple slam attacks should be reasonable. I'll look into it. Having all 5 be primary attacks might be pretty potent, but I'll crunch some numbers.

If they're natural attacks then they'll have to be primary. If not, then they should utilize them as arms and, thus, wield weapons in which one will be primary and the other 4 will need Multiweapon Fighting to be of any real use without heavy penalties.

Though 5 natural attacks for a CR 5 creature isn't really that bad especially for what it has. I've seen some pretty potent CR 5 creatures. Heck, the Grell was redone from MM2 to Lords of Madness and it's a CR 3 creature with TEN tentacle attacks, each of which can paralyze an enemy on a failed save AND it has improved grab and constrict special attacks. (though, personally, the grell is way too powerful with what it has to be a CR 3 creature)

But from what I noticed with Hierarch modrons is from Decaton on down you see less and less number of physical attacks but an increase in magical capabilities. And with Base modrons their attacks increased up to pentadrone. Monodrone has one, Duodrone has one (easily two with TWF feat), Tridrone has 3, Quadrone has 4 and it's proper for Pentadrone to have 5.